Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Mull]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I used to forget by bags but it becomes a habit.

And yes - we are a rounding error. But we have to do our part.

I mean China has banned a lot of single use plastics - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51171491

So has India - https://www.npr.org/2022/07/01/11094...ics-ban-begins

Its not like we are doing something wild that other places aren't doing. Those are the places everyone brings up when it comes to climate change.

Here in lines the problem, the plastic ban isn't about climate change, it is about plastic in the oceans with a GHG added on as an after thought. Yet, people assume this policy is driven by climate change actions, it isn't.

That said, I admit I didn't know other nations where implementing plastic bans, so thank you for that.

However, that is a false equivalency. Those nations are massively polluting our oceans and worldwide water ways. We have invested in mass garbage and recycling systems that society overwhelming buys into. We ARE doing our part with these investments. This isn't the GHG argument with climate change where first world nations who got rich of exploiting GHG get to turn their nose at nations trying to feed their populations. Us investing in proper garbage systems is doing our part by reducing waste that ends up in the oceans (edit as per Fuzz comment below- and work their way up through the food chains and into our bodies).

[Fuzz]

It's not just the oceans, microplastics are everywhere.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Signs and Symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance...
2. Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur...
3. Needs constant praise and admiration
4. Sense of entitlement...
5. Exploits others without guilt or shame...
6. Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others

Anyone on the internet

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Mull

Here in lines the problem, the plastic ban isn't about climate change, it is about plastic in the oceans with a GHG added on as an after thought. Yet, people assume this policy is driven by climate change actions, it isn't.

That said, I admit I didn't know other nations where implementing plastic bans, so thank you for that.

However, that is a false equivalency. Those nations are massively polluting our oceans and worldwide water ways. We have invested in mass garbage and recycling systems that society overwhelming buys into. We ARE doing our part with these investments. This isn't the GHG argument with climate change where first world nations who got rich of exploiting GHG get to turn their nose at nations trying to feed their populations. Us investing in proper garbage systems is doing our part by reducing waste that ends up in the oceans (edit as per Fuzz comment below- and work their way up through the food chains and into our bodies).

To be fair, while western society has bought into recycling, we were generally sold a false narrative by the plastics industry. The majority of plastic products we use today cannot be recycled without significant dismemberment - and even then, we were selling it to poor countries to burn for decades.

Mixed plastics now make up the majority of consumable products - these are not recyclable

https://www.calgary.ca/waste/residen...blue-cart.html

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Mull

Here in lines the problem, the plastic ban isn't about climate change, it is about plastic in the oceans with a GHG added on as an after thought. Yet, people assume this policy is driven by climate change actions, it isn't.

That said, I admit I didn't know other nations where implementing plastic bans, so thank you for that.

However, that is a false equivalency. Those nations are massively polluting our oceans and worldwide water ways. We have invested in mass garbage and recycling systems that society overwhelming buys into. We ARE doing our part with these investments. This isn't the GHG argument with climate change where first world nations who got rich of exploiting GHG get to turn their nose at nations trying to feed their populations. Us investing in proper garbage systems is doing our part by reducing waste that ends up in the oceans (edit as per Fuzz comment below- and work their way up through the food chains and into our bodies).

So your argument is that we should do nothing until other countries catch up to us? Then we can do something?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cappy

To be fair, while western society has bought into recycling, we were generally sold a false narrative by the plastics industry. The majority of plastic products we use today cannot be recycled without significant dismemberment - and even then, we were selling it to poor countries to burn for decades.

Mixed plastics now make up the majority of consumable products - these are not recyclable

https://www.calgary.ca/waste/residen...blue-cart.html

Even the stuff that is allowed the blue box - the waste majority of it either ends up being shipped to Asia to 'recycle' it (part of why they pollute the oceans) or just ends up in the dump. Very low percentage of recyclable plastic actually ends up recycled.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Trudeau had nice hair
but then sat in the chair
and gave Conservatives a scare

Trudeau dressed up and did blackface.
The Cons wanted him replaced.
The Cons offered up a dinosaur and a tool.
Should have won the last 2 elections.
Who is the fool?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Trudeau dressed up and did blackface.
The Cons wanted him replaced.
The Cons offered up a dinosaur and a tool.
Should have won the last 2 elections.
Who is the fool?

Welcome to CP's Poor Poetry Tuesday.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Welcome to CP's Poor Poetry Tuesday.

Name one well paid Poet who isn't dead?

[Mull]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

So your argument is that we should do nothing until other countries catch up to us? Then we can do something?

Aside from keeping up the good garbage and recycling programs? Yes, do nothing on this front, the gain isn't worth it.

Do you think plastics and micro plastics in the water ways and food chain would be an issue if other nations "catch" us? I don't. Haven't looked into it besides the stats of how many multiple times the other nations pollute the rivers, so if you know of contradictory stats by all means willing to listen. The public river stats for other nations is just beyond frightening compared to what we do.

I want no one to die in highway 2 anymore, so I make the speed limit 30 and enforce it strictly- we trade off all the time.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Even the stuff that is allowed the blue box - the waste majority of it either ends up being shipped to Asia to 'recycle' it (part of why they pollute the oceans) or just ends up in the dump. Very low percentage of recyclable plastic actually ends up recycled.

The city of Calgary was active on reddit a year back aggressively thwarting this about its recycling, don't know how accurate that is.

That said, if we do have a gap, fine, lets focus on closing that gap- I don't personally think banning plastics is the way to go.

[Azure]

Instead of banning single use plastics, perhaps we should find a way to recycle plastic better, develop more environmentally friendly plastic products, and encourage alternative wood / paper based products to replace plastic. Especially for items such as packaging.

But no, lets instead shame companies for not using paper straws.

I'd imagine a lot of our plastic pollution comes from all the junk we ship in from overseas.

[Fuzz]

I think part of the problem with single use plastics is they end up being litter far more often. I'd imagine packaging mostly ends up in the recycle bin, vs fast food forks, straws etc that get carelessly disposed of, accidentally dropped, blown away in the wind etc.

I really don't understand the resistance to stopping using them where a replacement is good enough. It's really really easy and cheap to make stuff out of plastic, so corporations take that path. Without anything to motivate them, they will continue doing it. Corporations should be shamed if they choose the easy way. How else would you motivate them without shame(hurting sales) or laws?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Even the stuff that is allowed the blue box - the waste majority of it either ends up being shipped to Asia to 'recycle' it (part of why they pollute the oceans) or just ends up in the dump. Very low percentage of recyclable plastic actually ends up recycled.

Recycling is Canada's dirty little secret.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fifth...ling-1.6410657

The federal government has privately sanctioned several Canadian recycling companies for shipping illegal, unsorted household trash to developing countries, but is keeping the list of names of those caught violating environmental and international laws secret from the public.

A Fifth Estate/Enquête investigation has found that at least 123 shipping containers have been returned to Canada in the past five years after foreign authorities discovered numerous violations of international waste export regulations aimed at stopping Western countries from dumping their trash in developing countries.

"We can't make those names public," Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault said in an interview with The Fifth Estate.

https://openparliament.ca/votes/43-2/128/

That vote and party alignment is you all you need to know about the recycling industry and who favours it.

But they put a blanket ban on single use plastics to woo the crowds. Also, since these containers are shipping out of Canada and not being burned or 'recycled' here, no carbon footprint, score one for the good guys.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Recycling is Canada's dirty little secret.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fifth...ling-1.6410657



https://openparliament.ca/votes/43-2/128/

That vote and party alignment is you all you need to know about the recycling industry and who favours it.

But they put a blanket ban on single use plastics to woo the crowds. Also, since these containers are shipping out of Canada and not being burned or 'recycled' here, no carbon footprint, score one for the good guys.

Getting rid of the single use plastics reduces the amount of recycling and reduces the problem you are speaking about.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think part of the problem with single use plastics is they end up being litter far more often. I'd imagine packaging mostly ends up in the recycle bin, vs fast food forks, straws etc that get carelessly disposed of, accidentally dropped, blown away in the wind etc.

I really don't understand the resistance to stopping using them where a replacement is good enough. It's really really easy and cheap to make stuff out of plastic, so corporations take that path. Without anything to motivate them, they will continue doing it. Corporations should be shamed if they choose the easy way. How else would you motivate them without shame(hurting sales) or laws?

Agree with this - bringing a reusable bag to a grocery store or using a cardboard straw is literally the tiniest inconvenience.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Azure

Instead of banning single use plastics, perhaps we should find a way to recycle plastic better, develop more environmentally friendly plastic products, and encourage alternative wood / paper based products to replace plastic. Especially for items such as packaging.

But no, lets instead shame companies for not using paper straws.

I'd imagine a lot of our plastic pollution comes from all the junk we ship in from overseas.

"Let's promote better, more environmentally sustainable products"

"paper straws?!? Everyone can burn on this rock before I taste paper again!"


The fact is, there are alternatives out there, companies do not have an actual incentive to use them; therefore, governments have stepped in to regulate them out.

Wooden and compostable products are already a thing.

[Harry Lime]

Since the government implemented the policy, I'm assuming that they are tracking the effect. Should we just wait for a yearly report regaling us with the positive numbers, and if no report is forthcoming assume that the single use plastic policy was simple posturing? Kind of pointless debating it at this point, until we have any data. Hopefully someone remembers to check the numbers in a year.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Since the government implemented the policy, I'm assuming that they are tracking the effect. Should we just wait for a yearly report regaling us with the positive numbers, and if no report is forthcoming assume that the single use plastic policy was simple posturing? Kind of pointless debating it at this point, until we have any data. Hopefully someone remembers to check the numbers in a year.

These are the six things banned:

checkout bags;
cutlery;
foodservice ware made from or containing problematic plastics that are hard to recycle;
ring carriers;
stir sticks; and
straws (with some exceptions

).

What stats do you want? That there is less of those things in landfills?

[Azure]

Do landfills not track the amount of plastic waste?

I mean we know we're sending all our way to 3rd world countries, so why can't they track the amounts?