2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Newly married, first child on the way, father's heart issues, COVID. So many major changes in his life near the completion of his contract with the Flames and the timing just didn't work out. That said probably better to have this happen before the contract than just after as if the player isn't happy under a long term deal it's probably not going great for both parties.

Which why it's still mind boggling that he chose Columbus instead of Jersey or the Islanders.

"too close" eff off Johnny!

[Nelson]

Tim Micallef said this morning on 960 that he heard the Flames had circled back a few times on Kadri. He may be uninformed, I don't know how plugged in he is, but his words make it sound like Kadri to the NYI is not done. Until Friedman, Seravalli, LeBrun, etc., the NYI, Kadri's agent or Kadri reports that Kadri has signed with the NYI, I will not be convinced its happened.

[Ford Prefect]

If Tre traded Gaudreau last summer for an underwhelming return it’s highly improbable Tkachuk would have had the season he did, and the return for Tkachuk this summer would have also been underwhelming. I’ll happily take the year the Flames had and the Florida return for Tkachuk rather than two underwhelming returns for our two top players.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Tim Micallef said this morning on 960 that he heard the Flames had circled back a few times on Kadri. He may be uninformed, I don't know how plugged in he is, but his words make it sound like Kadri to the NYI is not done. Until Friedman, Seravalli, LeBrun, etc., the NYI, Kadri's agent or Kadri reports that Kadri has signed with the NYI, I will not be convinced its happened.

I think if there was an actual signed deal done with NYI it would have been leaked by now. I have no doubt the Isles have given Kadri an offer, as have other teams. The whole "we've made a bunch of signings but don't want to reveal vulnerability until we make other moves" thing is really hard to fathom for me in 2022 with the amount of people who would hear about it and be eager to share it for 15sec of fame.

I think Kadri's still hoping the Avs make a bit of room to free up more cash for him, or that other offers go up still. It wouldn't shock me too if a sticking point is he wants a longer contract and teams aren't offering that to begin with.

[Major Major]

The trade value for Gaudreau would have dropped even further if the ultimatum power move some posters have been hindsight pining for happened. Imagine BT trying to get control of the situation by forcing a deal, the agent gleefully leaking that Johnny Gaudreau will be traded by this day, this hour, and all of the smirking GMs dropping their offers. It is such a stupid idea.

BT kept as many positive outcomes alive as possible for as long as possible and the low probability thing happened. It was absolutely the right move to hold on to Johnny, but now we turn the page and I'm glad he has done so with a bang.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Which why it's still mind boggling that he chose Columbus instead of Jersey or the Islanders.

"too close" eff off Johnny!

As long as it wasn't the Canucks or Oilers, I couldn't care less where it is if leaving was always going to be the end game. From his perspective he's in a relatively nice city with a markedly better climate than Calgary and relatively low tax rate compared to Canada or some US states.

He also doesn't need to deal with cross border travel as much when it comes to family visiting or vice versa, and any further pandemic issues will be less complex. He will also typically be home in his bed after road games by midnight compared to 3am in Calgary much of the time.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Major Major

The trade value for Gaudreau would have dropped even further if the ultimatum power move some posters have been hindsight pining for happened. Imagine BT trying to get control of the situation by forcing a deal, the agent gleefully leaking that Johnny Gaudreau will be traded by this day, this hour, and all of the smirking GMs dropping their offers. It is such a stupid idea.

BT kept as many positive outcomes alive as possible for as long as possible and the low probability thing happened. It was absolutely the right move to hold on to Johnny, but now we turn the page and I'm glad he has done so with a bang.

Huh? His value was gone to pretty much nothing the minute the trade deadline passed, and nothing was bringing that back. Obviously the Flames weren't selling him given their situation last season, but providing a hard deadline in the offseason (ahead of the imposed deadline) let's the Flames move on, and quite possibly forces decisions on Tkachuk to be made earlier as well.

BT basically painted himself into a corner that put so many decisions into a small window, and then acted surprised when his roll of the dice didn't hit. Its unbelievably obtuse to let that happen from a management perspective when you can extend some control - it is absolutely meaningless if Guadreau's camp has to make a decision a week to two earlier. You're not getting squat for him anyway at that point and when he's clearly not able to decide until the heat turns up, it forces things to conclude at a much more opportune time for everyone.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Nobody mentioned trading his rights. It was about trading him when he had at least a full year left on his contract, or more. I am sure we could have gotten more than a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Yeah, trading for his rights was a common line of thinking. Anyways, what do you think we could have gotten for a year of an undersized LW coming off back to back seasons where he was less than a point per game? I highly doubt whatever we got would've had the impact that this past year of Gaudreau had. Not to mention the effect it had on Tkachuk's numbers which allowed us to get the haul we did. So, let me ask you again - what return could Tre have gotten for Gaudreau last year, in your opinion?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Huh? His value was gone to pretty much nothing the minute the trade deadline passed, and nothing was bringing that back. Obviously the Flames weren't selling him given their situation last season, but providing a hard deadline in the offseason (ahead of the imposed deadline) let's the Flames move on, and quite possibly forces decisions on Tkachuk to be made earlier as well.

BT basically painted himself into a corner that put so many decisions into a small window, and then acted surprised when his roll of the dice didn't hit. Its unbelievably obtuse to let that happen from a management perspective when you can extend some control - it is absolutely meaningless if Guadreau's camp has to make a decision a week to two earlier. You're not getting squat for him anyway at that point and when he's clearly not able to decide until the heat turns up, it forces things to conclude at a much more opportune time for everyone.

I am not commenting on whether to trade his rights this off season. I am talking about this "get control back" narrative of telling him he is traded before his NTC kicks in with no deal. That is what would paint him into a corner. That is what diminishes BT's control. That is what closes the window on an extension and lets the whole league know that you need to trade this undersized winger coming off 2 consecutive down years. It would have been a massive fail.

Instead, he kept the window wide open for extending, a deadline deal should the team underperform, extending after the season. He increased the team's viability to win which was not that unrealistic going into the playoffs. He simply increased the number of positive outcomes that the situation could have ended in. He was able to make a great case for Gaudreau to stay and I think the probability was high all the way to the end. Sometimes the low probability thing happens. Oh well, move on.

[FBI]

So Kadri to NYI not so much then?

[mile]

Yeah until Friedman says it, I'm not convinced


Tim makes a solid point that the Flames might represent the best medium between NYI and the Avs. With NYI he'd probably get paid, but have the worst chances of winning out of the three teams. Colorado has the best chance of winning, but he would probably be severely underpaid if he stayed there. With Calgary, he'd probably still get a raise (but not a substantial one) from his previous salary but would still have a chance to win. It depends on how much he values $ vs winning.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Not even Kadri can save the Isles, they sadly are still in a terrible position.
I’d say they need a rebuild even though it feels like they have been for a while now.
Similar to the flames they refuse to scorch earth full rebuild and instead try to continually challenge.

Kadri would be a terrible large signing for them, so if Lou is that desperate let him do it.

Second to that is why would Kadri want to go there? Would have to simply be the money at this point, the Isles aren’t anywhere close to challenging and have a horribly built team with a mix of has beens and won’t be’s with a few gems sprinkled in.

Lou should be selling high and going the Chicago route for Bedard/Michkov.

They just went to G6 and G7 of the ECF, giving the Lightning their greatest challenge in both cup runs. They played an extra 41 games amidst the wonky scheduling of the weird COVID seasons...so coming off a shorter off-season into a 13 game road trip they under performed.

People writing their obituary is hilarious. It's unlikely they reach those heights again (because the odds are against anybody), but they are still a very, very good team (at least in the playoffs).

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

They just went to G6 and G7 of the ECF, giving the Lightning their greatest challenge in both cup runs. They played an extra 41 games amidst the wonky scheduling of the weird COVID seasons...so coming off a shorter off-season into a 13 game road trip they under performed.

People writing their obituary is hilarious. It's unlikely they reach those heights again (because the odds are against anybody), but they are still a very, very good team (at least in the playoffs).

They are one of the oldest teams in the league and went on their impressive run during the Trotz era. Flames will likely be a good team as long as they have Sutter and buy in. Throw Huska or Mueller in there and this team could fall apart as well.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I am not commenting on whether to trade his rights this off season. I am talking about this "get control back" narrative of telling him he is traded before his NTC kicks in with no deal. That is what would paint him into a corner. That is what diminishes BT's control. That is what closes the window on an extension and lets the whole league know that you need to trade this undersized winger coming off 2 consecutive down years. It would have been a massive fail.

Instead, he kept the window wide open for extending, a deadline deal should the team underperform, extending after the season. He increased the team's viability to win which was not that unrealistic going into the playoffs. He simply increased the number of positive outcomes that the situation could have ended in. He was able to make a great case for Gaudreau to stay and I think the probability was high all the way to the end. Sometimes the low probability thing happens. Oh well, move on.

Having an impending star UFA actually walk to free agency is not low probability at all. Infact, it is a highly probably outcome going into the final year of a deal, and one that most of the fanbase was highly concerned about all season.

Simply allowing things to get to that point as a GM is downright idiotic (you have to pursue an extension the previous offseason), but allowing the decision to quite literally go to the league imposed deadline, only hours from free agency opening is even worse. The simple fact so much hinged on getting that deal with Guadreau done (signing Tkachuk, pursuing replacement's via trade or free agency) speaks volumes for how detached management was from even considering they might not be able to close.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by mile

Yeah until Friedman says it, I'm not convinced


Tim makes a solid point that the Flames might represent the best medium between NYI and the Avs. With NYI he'd probably get paid, but have the worst chances of winning out of the three teams. Colorado has the best chance of winning, but he would probably be severely underpaid if he stayed there. With Calgary, he'd probably still get a raise (but not a substantial one) from his previous salary but would still have a chance to win. It depends on how much he values $ vs winning.

I think Lou is just so in the media's head that they assume he has all these magic deals waiting pending announcements. I just can't see why Kadri or his agent would want to look like idiots for a month just so Lou can be tricky with the media. The stuff last year was a bunch of RFAs getting paid next to nothing.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Yeah, trading for his rights was a common line of thinking. Anyways, what do you think we could have gotten for a year of an undersized LW coming off back to back seasons where he was less than a point per game? I highly doubt whatever we got would've had the impact that this past year of Gaudreau had. Not to mention the effect it had on Tkachuk's numbers which allowed us to get the haul we did. So, let me ask you again - what return could Tre have gotten for Gaudreau last year, in your opinion?

If Gaudreau was put on the table last summer, or even the year before, I have no doubt that teams around the league would have made some pretty decent players available. It's impossible to say. I wouldn't have been shocked if Philly would have paid a high price at that time as it was likely they thought they could sign him to an extension.

I get that having Gaudreau helped win the division and making the 2nd round of the playoffs is nice, and that has value. But it's not like Treliving would have got nothing for him. Gaudreau's value was not as low as some people seem to think IMO.

This is one thing that I don't understand about how people can call Treliving a wizard and put him above criticism, but then have absolutely no faith that he could have pulled off a great trade where the team would still be competitive without also losing a franchise player for nothing. When it comes to making trades, that is the one thing that I think Treliving does better than almost any other GM.

It really depends on what happens in the future. If having one good season (not even what I would call great in the big picture as the team was pummeled in the playoffs) means it is followed by several years of mediocrity for losing a franchise player for nothing, then I personally don't think it is worth it. Only time will tell.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Having an impending star UFA actually walk to free agency is not low probability at all. Infact, it is a highly probably outcome going into the final year of a deal, and one that most of the fanbase was highly concerned about all season.

Simply allowing things to get to that point as a GM is downright idiotic (you have to pursue an extension the previous offseason), but allowing the decision to quite literally go to the league imposed deadline, only hours from free agency opening is even worse. The simple fact so much hinged on getting that deal with Guadreau done (signing Tkachuk, pursuing replacement's via trade or free agency) speaks volumes for how detached management was from even considering they might not be able to close.

You miss the point. Any deadline just moves the trade date, and the date by which other teams put in their stink bids.

As for management "not even considering" they might not get a deal, that's a real stretch. I'm sure they considered it. But at the time Johnny said he wanted to stay, there was no baby on the way, Guy had no heart attack and the Flames were heading into a positive season. So in spite of that your desire was for Treliving to assume the worst, chuck the season, and go for a crap offer from someone for a 70 point undersized LW.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

They just went to G6 and G7 of the ECF, giving the Lightning their greatest challenge in both cup runs. They played an extra 41 games amidst the wonky scheduling of the weird COVID seasons...so coming off a shorter off-season into a 13 game road trip they under performed.

People writing their obituary is hilarious. It's unlikely they reach those heights again (because the odds are against anybody), but they are still a very, very good team (at least in the playoffs).

Trotz is gone.

Toews, Eberle, Leddy, and others are gone from those teams. And they are 3 years older.

Lee is 32, Nelson, is 30, Bailey is 32, Pageau will 30 when next season starts, Palmieri is 31, Cizikas, is 31, Clutterbuck is 34, Martin is 33.

They do have some decent pieces in their prime in Barzal (25), Pulock (27), Pelech (27), Dobson (22), Romanov (22), and Sorokin (26).

But they haven't had a 1st round pick since 2019 (moved all of the 2020, 2021, and 2022 firsts) so not a deep prospect pool coming up to help them.

I don't think those two runs are indications of future success for that franchise.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Gaudreau was put on the table last summer, or even the year before, I have no doubt that teams around the league would have made some pretty decent players available. It's impossible to say. I wouldn't have been shocked if Philly would have paid a high price at that time as it was likely they thought they could sign him to an extension.

I get that having Gaudreau helped win the division and making the 2nd round of the playoffs is nice, and that has value. But it's not like Treliving would have got nothing for him. Gaudreau's value was not as low as some people seem to think IMO.

This is one thing that I don't understand about how people can call Treliving a wizard and put him above criticism, but then have absolutely no faith that he could have pulled off a great trade where the team would still be competitive without also losing a franchise player for nothing. When it comes to making trades, that is the one thing that I think Treliving does better than almost any other GM.

It really depends on what happens in the future. If having one good season (not even what I would call great in the big picture as the team was pummeled in the playoffs) means it is followed by several years of mediocrity for losing a franchise player for nothing, then I personally don't think it is worth it. Only time will tell.

I really wish this team would manage themselves with more attention and focus on building an asset base to allow the team to be a contender for an extended window. That takes hard decisions, harder than this franchise has seemingly been capable of making. You can go back and look at all the core players that should have been traded earlier: Iginla, Regehr, Kipper, Langkow, Johnny, etc.

But I have a hard time placing the fault at the feet of the different GMs since this seems to be a longstanding issue that suggests it's more at the ownership level.

But I would love them to become brutal about asset management.
In my bubble I would have traded Johnny 3-4 years ago.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05;8391326[B

]How many GMs lost their 2 best players in their prime?[/B] Treliving ####ed up and put himself in that position. He saved himself with the Tkachuk trade so far but lots of work left to be seen.

He didn't lose Tkachuk, in fact I think 80%+ of the hockey world thinks he won that deal. Including you a week ago lol.