[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

If you believe if it’s a one year of Tkachuk then it’s a win

If you believe it’s a trade of a signed Tkachuk then it’s a meh deal. Average I guess.

It's clearly a one year deal.

When a player is one year from walking himself to free agency and can essentially say yes or no to extending with any team you try to deal him to it's a one year deal.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's clearly a one year deal.

When a player is one year from walking himself to free agency and can essentially say yes or no to extending with any team you try to deal him to it's a one year deal.

Then it’s a huge win. What’s the debate?

Now need to ask Zito what makes him give up so much

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't think there is much argument that Huberdeau/Weegar > Tarasenko/Scandella.

Hypothetically speaking though, if Tarasenko came with an extension and Huberdeau/Weegar walk after this season, would that change anyone's opinion?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't have any feelings about their reasons. Their reasons are their own and who are we to judge them? They are also in very different stages of their lives. If Matthew picked Florida because of low tax rate, or just because he likes the beach - that's cool with me. And if Johnny picked for family reasons, that's cool too. These guys are making decisions on where to live - so I don't question any of that.

For me it has always been more about how they handled things. And in this way I have two primary issues with Johnny
1. He needed to get more real with himself about whether or not he wanted to be in Calgary. I appreciated he was conflicted, but get to a point of clarity sooner.
2. I do believe the Flames matched his offer, and thought it was done, and he backed out last minute.

That's why I respect how Tkachuk went about things more than Johnny.

Serious question on #1 - why? Why did he need to decide any sooner? Why should we expect him to decide before seeing the actual best offer? The Flames could have put that offer on the table at any time, though I'm sure they had their own strategic reasons for playing it as they did (and Johnny bears no responsibility for that). Wouldn't fans be pissed if he slammed the door before letting the negotiations play out?

We can speculate that stating his intentions sooner might have improved his UFA frenzy. Or it might not...it's been known for months that Klingberg and Kadri would hit the market, and they are still looking for deals.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think there is much argument that Huberdeau/Weegar > Tarasenko/Scandella.

Hypothetically speaking though, if Tarasenko came with an extension and Huberdeau/Weegar walk after this season, would that change anyone's opinion?

Tarasenko sure had a nice bounce back last year but has had a far more questionable recent past than the players acquired. Huberdeau is coming off 4 straight seasons of over ppg production and is a year younger. I also prefer Canadians to any other nationality when the difference is minimal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think there is much argument that Huberdeau/Weegar > Tarasenko/Scandella.

Hypothetically speaking though, if Tarasenko came with an extension and Huberdeau/Weegar walk after this season, would that change anyone's opinion?

Hypothetically speaking, what if Tampa Bay came out of the Blue with an offer of Kucherov and Cernak?

What's Tarasenko signing for in your example? Frankly, I think a negotiation with him is trickier because of his weird last 4 seasons. Huberdeau has a consistent pattern and you can safely offer him a Gaudreau deal. I see also that Tarasenko has a NTC, so maybe that was not even on the table yet.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Then it’s a huge win. What’s the debate?

Now need to ask Zito what makes him give up so much

I wasn't the one debating.

Seems like a slam dunk to me.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think there is much argument that Huberdeau/Weegar > Tarasenko/Scandella.

Hypothetically speaking though, if Tarasenko came with an extension and Huberdeau/Weegar walk after this season, would that change anyone's opinion?

No. The problem in that case wouldn't be this trade, but the subsequent asset mgmt.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hypothetically speaking, what if Tampa Bay came out of the Blue with an offer of Kucherov and Cernak?

What's Tarasenko signing for in your example? Frankly, I think a negotiation with him is trickier because of his weird last 4 seasons. Huberdeau has a consistent pattern and you can safely offer him a Gaudreau deal. I see also that Tarasenko has a NTC, so maybe that was not even on the table yet.

If the rumoured source was correct you can understand why Treliving mentioned that the Panthers offer was the best by far.

https://theathletic.com/3443616/2022...nthers-flames/

One source said the Blues’ proposal included Vladimir Tarasenko, Marco Scandella and a high draft pick; the team officially declined comment.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If the rumoured source was correct you can understand why Treliving mentioned that the Panthers offer was the best by far.

https://theathletic.com/3443616/2022...nthers-flames/

Oh, I agree. I am just saying we can all invent hypotheticals to make the deal less attractive. The fact we have to do that indicates it's a solid deal.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Serious question on #1 - why? Why did he need to decide any sooner? Why should we expect him to decide before seeing the actual best offer? The Flames could have put that offer on the table at any time, though I'm sure they had their own strategic reasons for playing it as they did (and Johnny bears no responsibility for that). Wouldn't fans be pissed if he slammed the door before letting the negotiations play out?

We can speculate that stating his intentions sooner might have improved his UFA frenzy. Or it might not...it's been known for months that Klingberg and Kadri would hit the market, and they are still looking for deals.

Johnny did nothing wrong at the end of the day but the way he went about it resulted in an emotional response from Flames fans that left a sour taste in the majority of their mouths.

1. I think the fans move on easier if the decision didn’t come down to the last minute
2. I think the fans move on easier if he chooses Philly or NJ or a top team out east as opposed to Columbus

He didn’t know and it left hope for all those involved and when he decides at the end to leave and then chooses the market in the states that is the equivalent of Winnipeg in Canada it left more questions than answers. The way he responded to questions in his introductory press conference angered the fans, waiting several days to release the tribune article also didn’t help his cause.

This is all emotional and the way Johnny played it soured the fanbase. The difference with Tkachuk is I believe he knew he was leaving in 3-4 years the moment he signed his bridge deal in 2019. He saw what Johnny did and took a different approach and was far more polished. The Flames got a return, Chucky thanked the city and fans immediately and because of Bill Zito fans are not that sad because we got an epic return that can get better with new deals for the guys acquired.

When you take away all the outside stuff and emotion then in many ways Johnny was by all accounts considering staying and was torn where Tkachuk knew he was out. Impossible for fans to take emotions out and it is perceived that Johnny ripped our hearts out while Tkachuk being up front allowed the team to retool on the fly and get excited about the new additions.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Then it’s a huge win. What’s the debate?

Now need to ask Zito what makes him give up so much

Zito saw something he really wanted and was aggressive to make it happen. He has called Tkachuk a generational talent and unicorn since he acquired him. He saw a path to get the player and moved on from guys he wasn’t going to be able to keep to make it happen. He has been overly aggressive in his pursuit of winning which has resulted in 4 straight 1sts being traded (2 of the guys acquired already left the team).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Zito saw something he really wanted and was aggressive to make it happen. He has called Tkachuk a generational talent and unicorn since he acquired him. He saw a path to get the player and moved on from guys he wasn’t going to be able to keep to make it happen. He has been overly aggressive in his pursuit of winning which has resulted in 4 straight 1sts being traded (2 of the guys acquired already left the team).

well there's his problem

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Zito saw something he really wanted and was aggressive to make it happen. He has called Tkachuk a generational talent and unicorn since he acquired him. He saw a path to get the player and moved on from guys he wasn’t going to be able to keep to make it happen. He has been overly aggressive in his pursuit of winning which has resulted in 4 straight 1sts being traded (2 of the guys acquired already left the team).

Zito got a 24 year old player that just scored over 40 goals and 100 point who is locked in for 8 years. Aside from that, Tkachuk has intangibles as well.

Given their cap situation after this season, it's likely that they would have to walk away from one of Huberdeau or Weegar (or another impact player). Tkachuk will also be in his prime for all, or nearly all, of the 8 years that he is signed for. Huberdeau and Weegar will likely be post-apex players 3 or 4 years from now.

I am not saying is was a bad trade for us, but Florida made a great decision IMO.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Then it’s a huge win. What’s the debate?

Now need to ask Zito what makes him give up so much

I don't think its a tremendous mystery. Before this trade - they had 4 guys making up 40% of their cap room (Barkov/Bobrovsky both 12.1%, Ekblad 9.1%, Reinhart 7.9%. They didn't want 2 more big contracts - so they consolidated their 2 guys into 1 guy who's younger.

They could have lost them for nothing at the end of the year - so they moved them for some kind of return.

You see it more in fantasy leagues than pro leagues but it does happen - GM starts to devalue his own guys because they are blocked from a role or be unable to be kept.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Zito got a 24 year old player that just scored over 40 goals and 100 point who is locked in for 8 years. Aside from that, Tkachuk has intangibles as well.

Given their cap situation after this season, it's likely that they would have to walk away from one of Huberdeau or Weegar (or another impact player). Tkachuk will also be in his prime for all, or nearly all, of the 8 years that he is signed for. Huberdeau and Weegar will likely be post-apex players 3 or 4 years from now.

I am not saying is was a bad trade for us, but Florida made a great decision IMO.

Time will tell but I strongly disagree, how many 100 point seasons do you see for Tkachuk in those 8 years? Also is their team better for this season?

Seems to be they may be decent longer but will never be as good as they could have been this season.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Zito saw something he really wanted and was aggressive to make it happen. He has called Tkachuk a generational talent and unicorn since he acquired him. He saw a path to get the player and moved on from guys he wasn’t going to be able to keep to make it happen. He has been overly aggressive in his pursuit of winning which has resulted in 4 straight 1sts being traded (2 of the guys acquired already left the team).

And thus FLA couldn't offer sheet him, and Treliving hopefully threw it out there that other teams were thinking of offer sheeting, and told FLA he would elect club arbitration to protect FLA, and in return FLA had to give up more for that favour.

It is true on paper and in theory and if MT can replicate chemistry he had with JG with Barkov, he's a pretty rare guy to come available. But he still has maturing to do, sometimes his actions didn't back up his offseason words, and it will be tough to assume he will replicate his great statistical season again.

Florida is betting he can mature, bring those intangibles he brought here, but also get close to a ppg player...hope it works out for them.

[Saqe]

Zito saw two years in a row that the "core" couldn't get it done so he wanted a big change. Also it didn't help that Huberdeau and Weegar were bad in the playoffs, although lots of blame to go around.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah Florida doesn't have a ton coming up the pipeline after Lundell and Denisenko.

No first in 2022, 2023, 2024. That team could be in bad shape by the time 2025/2026 come around.

Edit: Looking back and Panthers have moved a lot of draft capital.

It's the Pittsburgh plan.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Zito saw two years in a row that the "core" couldn't get it done so he wanted a big change. Also it didn't help that Huberdeau and Weegar were bad in the playoffs, although lots of blame to go around.

Good thing he wasn't the Avs GM

Tkachuk hasn't exactly got it done in the playoffs either, against much worse competition