Enmax Bills

[Ahuch]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The economic withholding going on with the generators right now is incredible.

I shudder to think what will happen when the province sees the typically high loads in July and August.

If this weather keeps up my AC might not even run this year

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The economic withholding going on with the generators right now is incredible.

I shudder to think what will happen when the province sees the typically high loads in July and August.

We converted nearly all the coal plants to inefficient natural gas generators, and now gas has gone to $7. Higher electricity prices was the expected outcome of that decision.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

We converted nearly all the coal plants to inefficient natural gas generators, and now gas has gone to $7. Higher electricity prices was the expected outcome of that decision.

It's more than that. The shape of merit curve has changed dramatically. Before the conversion to gas fired steam, these coal units were running at 100% output or not at all.

What I don't know is if the operation of the units has changed allowing them to offer up blocks of power at different prices.

[gasman]

nm

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

It's more than that. The shape of merit curve has changed dramatically. Before the conversion to gas fired steam, these coal units were running at 100% output or not at all.

What I don't know is if the operation of the units has changed allowing them to offer up blocks of power at different prices.

Exactly. They were previously low cost baseload that ran full out.

Gas makes them more flexible (which improves their ability to bid strategicially) and also makes them higher cost, which increase the prices they are able to bid at. Massively reducing the baseload shifts the entire merit order. It also makes prices more volatile.

This was the expected outcome of carbon taxes/coal regulations.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Exactly. They were previously low cost baseload that ran full out.

Gas makes them more flexible (which improves their ability to bid strategicially) and also makes them higher cost, which increase the prices they are able to bid at. Massively reducing the baseload shifts the entire merit order. It also makes prices more volatile.

This was the expected outcome of carbon taxes/coal regulations.

Is coal cheaper per MJ than gas in Alberta(excluding all taxes)? Was just looking, but couldn't find any info.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Is coal cheaper per MJ than gas in Alberta(excluding all taxes)? Was just looking, but couldn't find any info.

Excluding all taxes it isn't even close, especially now that gas prices are way up again. The carbon tax is a huge swing from coal to gas. A big factor is that the power plants are built next to coal mines. They literally move it by conveyor from the mine to the burner.

[Fuzz]

Just wondering, because I think when they started these conversions gas was pretty dirt cheap, too.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Excluding all taxes it isn't even close, especially now that gas prices are way up again. The carbon tax is a huge swing from coal to gas. A big factor is that the power plants are built next to coal mines. They literally move it by conveyor from the mine to the burner.

The pre-tax lower cost of coal and its ease of supply/stockpile is why I think that without a nuclear (or hydro) buildout, Alberta needs to keep some of the more efficient coal power plants. As a hedge against NG prices and natural gas supplies being disrupted in winter (like what happened in Texas last year).

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Just wondering, because I think when they started these conversions gas was pretty dirt cheap, too.

I thought this was a good question, and while I knew the answer intuitively was "cheap" I decided I should be able to quantify that. The best I could do was the 2017 annual filings of Westmoreland Coal, which owns most of the power plant coal mines in Alberta and Saskatchewan. They went bankrupt in 2018 so newer financials aren't easy to find.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...lb201710-k.htm

In 2017 their Canadian division had $438.3 MM in revenue. All their Canadian assets are thermal coal except one. Luckily, the marketer of the coking coal was a single concentrated customer and was 26% of Canadian revenue, so we can deduce that $324.3 MM of revenue was from thermal coal.

Their mine disclosures show that they sold 20.3 MM tons of thermal coal when I added up production from the non-coking mines.

So they charged $15.98/ton for thermal coal.

Then I calculated a weighted average heat content for their thermal mines and it was 7206 btu/lb, which is equivalent to 15.2 GJ/ton.

So they charged their customers $1.05 USD for every GJ of energy contained in coal in 2017. Using the Bank of Canada's yearly average exchange rate that is $1.36 CAD per GJ.

It would be higher than that now due to inflation, but the estimate is also too high. I took their total revenue and deducted the coking coal, but they also have a char plant and an activated carbon plant in that revenue number. And royalties are higher in SK than AB which also reduces the cost of AB coal.

Edited to add: I re-did the same set of calculations using only revenue from Atco and the tonnage/heat capacity of mines serving Atco and got $1.22 CAD, so that is probably a better number for Alberta coal costs in 2017.

[bizaro86]

Worth noting that the figures above are the cost of heating value into the plant. And at well under $2 even in 2022 coal is still way better than nat gas at $7.

The thermal efficiency of the plants isn't the same though. Genesee 3 with its fancy super critical boiler gets 40% of the HHV of its coal.

https://www.powermag.com/plant-effic...t-definitions/

I'm not exactly sure what % of the HHV of nat gas the modern combined cycle plants get, but something in the 50-60% range would be a reasonable assumption. So that helps the nat gas on a cost basis.

Of course, its all moot at this point due to carbon taxes. Although I wonder if gas had been $7 two years ago if those conversions would have happened quite as fast.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Worth noting that the figures above are the cost of heating value into the plant. And at well under $2 even in 2022 coal is still way better than nat gas at $7.

The thermal efficiency of the plants isn't the same though. Genesee 3 with its fancy super critical boiler gets 40% of the HHV of its coal.

https://www.powermag.com/plant-effic...t-definitions/

I'm not exactly sure what % of the HHV of nat gas the modern combined cycle plants get, but something in the 50-60% range would be a reasonable assumption. So that helps the nat gas on a cost basis.

Of course, its all moot at this point due to carbon taxes. Although I wonder if gas had been $7 two years ago if those conversions would have happened quite as fast.

Are there any additional costs to burning coal, downstream of the boilers? I'm thinking capturing emissions to meet current air quality standards (Particulate, NOx, SOx, etc?)

I don't really know much about coal... gas on the other hand

I don't think there is much debate that coal is cheaper than gas for electrical generation. I guess the question is, is the immediate change in fuel type and subsequent reduction in emissions worth it?

I do have a certain level of respect for politicians that actually make progress towards their stated goals. Someone who actually makes strides to do what they said they would do, rather than just talks virtues and waves their hands around.

(Don't take this as an endorsement of what the NDP did, I still think their "plan" was reckless, but I can admire that they actually did something...)

[Bigtime]

Heard on the radio this morning that the approved electricity rate for August will be at $0.17kWh. Ouch.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Heard on the radio this morning that the approved electricity rate for August will be at $0.17kWh. Ouch.

It's the fault of all you solar generators shipping it to us at $0.26/kWh!

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Heard on the radio this morning that the approved electricity rate for August will be at $0.17kWh. Ouch.

Also heard this morning that the rebates should start appearing on our bills soon depending on your billing cycle and who your provider is.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Also heard this morning that the rebates should start appearing on our bills soon depending on your billing cycle and who your provider is.

I got mine on my July 22 bill.

[DoubleF]

With some of these rebates and whatnot, does anyone know whether there was a major difference between locking in vs floating from Q1 this year?

[CroFlames]

What is your average electricity consumption? I have a newer two story home (fairly efficient) and it looks like when the average temp is above freezing, I'm using about 550 kwH. We're a family of five.


During winter months it ranges wildly, from anywhere from 750 to 1100 kwH.

[malcolmk14]

Home built in 2015. All new appliances.

Average electricity consumption the last 6 years:

2016-17: 566 kWh
2017-18: 501 kWh
2018-19: 509 kWh
2019-20: 523 kWh
2020-21: 750 kWh
2021-22: 953 kWh

Obviously being home all the time since Covid started has really put pressure on our electricity usage. We also had a baby in April 2021. Family of 3 now.

[topfiverecords]

Average roughly 425kWh. Work from home. Family of 3. 1400 sq ft 1911.