[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You go back to Tkachuk’s comments when Matthews signed his 5 year deal and he was quick to compliment that term. When he signed his 3 year bridge it was all about “keeping the team together” clearly it was all about getting out of Calgary in 4 years. He was ready to sign the QO and play out his last year here but they were able to come to an agreement to trade him now which worked for both parties.

I agree Chucky comes across as a politician and is calculated in what he says to the media. I believe he enjoyed his time here but was never planning to be a career Flame. Luckily he is a rare breed of player that was able to garner a massive return in a trade that allowed the Flames to retool and stay competitive.

The breakup with Chucky was something that I think many saw coming even when he said he absolutely wanted to stay here long term. Gaudreau does come across as more sincere so he turned believers out of many of us when he said he wanted to stay even Eric Francis. So when he left it stung more especially since the team got nothing for him and offered him $15M more than the team who got him did.

I think it is probably 80-20 that Chucky gets a really warm reception when he comes back to the dome next year but I think it is 90% chance Johnny here’s the boos. I do think he will get an ovation during the tribute video but will hear it every time he touches the puck. Chucky is going to have to do something dirty to one of our players to get the same response.

Funny part is I'm way more empathetic to Gaudreau's reason for wanting to leave than Tkachuks, which IMO he really hasn't said a real reason.

Gaudreau gave the team 8 years, was torn by the decision, and in the end decided to leave (to do what his family preferred) and was vilified for it.

Tkachuk pretty much forced a trade, and sure we got a good return, but really I don't see him as some hero here.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Funny part is I'm way more empathetic to Gaudreau's reason for wanting to leave than Tkachuks, which IMO he really hasn't said a real reason.

Gaudreau gave the team 8 years, was torn by the decision, and in the end decided to leave (to do what his family preferred) and was vilified for it.

Tkachuk pretty much forced a trade, and sure we got a good return, but really I don't see him as some hero here.

I think emotionally for fans it hurt more to see Johnny leave. I remember I was driving from a stampede event to my golf league on the Tuesday before free agency and Pat was on the radio talking about how the Gaudreau camp has countered the Flames offer. I was listening thinking this was classic Lewis Gross and we were at the pinch point to get the deal done and it seemed like it was trending that way. Then on the back 9 I get a TSN update stating Johnny is going to market.

Tkachuk has even stated “he did it the right way”. He was more upfront about it and worked with the team to get a return that reignited the fanbase in a way that I think got the fans more pumped than had he stayed.

It is like a relationship. If someone dumps you and you had suspicions they were not happy and wanted out of the relationship it hurts but a little less so if you see it coming. With Johnny it seemed like one day you are talking about a future together and buying a house etc and the next day it’s over somewhat out of the blue. It hurts more because you don’t expect it and we are left with nothing. Chucky leaves and we are left with 2 new core pieces and futures.

I also think had Johnny said prior to the draft he wanted to go to the market it would t have stung so much. Waiting until the night before, days after our GM said to the media he feels there is a deal to be made here absolutely crushed the fanbase.

[browna]

Yeah it's clear Matthew's freindship tour here is a surge to pat the fans and Calgarians on the head to distract them from the fact he really never wanted to be here any longer than he had to be.

And that was not a decision he made now, a decision he made when he got a 4 year deal for the value of a 5 year deal to put him in the drivers seat (assuming he played up to anywhere near the value of his contract)and the Flames in a position of weakness in the 2022 offseason.

And, this media tour barrage is amplified becuase JG isn't doing the same rounds.

As mentioned, he likes the city sure, maybe, but he doesn't have any good reason to leave like JG does. He wants to move back to the US and get away from here, but his smoothing over thing more eloquently makes people forgive and keep their angst pointed at JG, where JG had more than second thoughts about leaving at all, and if he were single or not expecting a child, he'd welcome the chance to stay here and would've signed.

[UnitedFlames]

Tkachuk had zero to do with our haul. The Flames were just super lucky that Florida values him the way they do and decided to go this route now. If not for that, we might all be debating where Tarasenko fits into the line up. If that had happened, no one would be calling Tkachuk a hero.

As someone on here said, he's in it for himself - always has been, always will be.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Funny part is I'm way more empathetic to Gaudreau's reason for wanting to leave than Tkachuks, which IMO he really hasn't said a real reason.

Gaudreau gave the team 8 years, was torn by the decision, and in the end decided to leave (to do what his family preferred) and was vilified for it.

Tkachuk pretty much forced a trade, and sure we got a good return, but really I don't see him as some hero here.

I have only one Raiders player jersey and it's a Bo Jackson one. Being a big football fan I'm used to players moving around all the time and due to guaranteed contracts it doesn't happen as much in the NHL but it doesn't change the fact that players are hired mercenaries so it's a matter of cheering for the jersey and not getting overly attached to players. When Iginla left I turned the page quickly just as I have with these two players. It's just business at the end of the day and nothing personal as players should do what's in their own best interests. Tkachuk's actions have spoken for him so he doesn't owe me an explanation, and the last thing I want is BS from him about how it was a tough decisions or how much he liked playing in Calgary. The events this summer involving him have been in the works for a long time. He's turned the page on the Calgary part of his career and I have turned the page on cheering for him as I'm focused on the players wearing the jersey that want to be here.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by UnitedFlames

Tkachuk had zero to do with our haul. The Flames were just super lucky that Florida values him the way they do and decided to go this route now. If not for that, we might all be debating where Tarasenko fits into the line up. If that had happened, no one would be calling Tkachuk a hero.

As someone on here said, he's in it for himself - always has been, always will be.

Tkachuk could have said he only wanted to play in Florida and that would have certainly limited the haul. The fact he gave the team multiple options allowed Treliving to regain a little leverage in the negotiation and land the premium package he did.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think emotionally for fans it hurt more to see Johnny leave. I remember I was driving from a stampede event to my golf league on the Tuesday before free agency and Pat was on the radio talking about how the Gaudreau camp has countered the Flames offer. I was listening thinking this was classic Lewis Gross and we were at the pinch point to get the deal done and it seemed like it was trending that way. Then on the back 9 I get a TSN update stating Johnny is going to market.

Tkachuk has even stated “he did it the right way”. He was more upfront about it and worked with the team to get a return that reignited the fanbase in a way that I think got the fans more pumped than had he stayed.

It is like a relationship. If someone dumps you and you had suspicions they were not happy and wanted out of the relationship it hurts but a little less so if you see it coming. With Johnny it seemed like one day you are talking about a future together and buying a house etc and the next day it’s over somewhat out of the blue. It hurts more because you don’t expect it and we are left with nothing. Chucky leaves and we are left with 2 new core pieces and futures.

I also think had Johnny said prior to the draft he wanted to go to the market it would t have stung so much. Waiting until the night before, days after our GM said to the media he feels there is a deal to be made here absolutely crushed the fanbase.

Thing is that kind of downplays that the situations are very different.

With Gaudreau he was a UFA - and I don't think it's a huge difference if he makes a decision July 1st or July 13th. Even then the Flames could have pushed for an answer sooner and they didn't - they actually didn't give their best offer until the 12th so they clearly weren't worried either.

Gaudreau probably could have made a decision earlier, but he has been consistent in saying it was a very tough decision that he went back and forth right to the final day. I honestly think a deal was there to be made, but once the offer was in front of his then his (and maybe more his families true desires became more apparent).

Tkachuk was able to be more transparent because:

A) He was more certain he wanted to leave

B) Cashing out on his last season was in his best interest and in order to do that he needed the Flames help, and needed to act like he was willing to go to more than one place or else it just hurts his own contract negotiation.

C) Since he was an RFA there still was some value there.

Tkachuk was just acting in his own best interest - but was able to frame it like he was doing the Flames a favour.

The only person who did the Flames a favour here was Bill Zito lol.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk could have said he only wanted to play in Florida and that would have certainly limited the haul. The fact he gave the team multiple options allowed Treliving to regain a little leverage in the negotiation and land the premium package he did.

We are talking about one of the more business oriented players in the league here. Everything had been carefully calculated by his family and agent. If the offer from the Panthers was similar to the Blues offer I get the feeling that Treliving would have simply held on to Tkachuk until next season's trade deadline, if not flat out keep him if they were in a playoff position. The Flames still held the card of the 8th season and if Tkachuk played the 22/23 season in Calgary without Gaudreau his numbers would be a lot lower going into free agency. It was in Tkachuk's best interest to give the Flames ample opportunity to trade him this offseason coming off a peak season where he could ensure an 8 year contract. Helping out the Flames in any capacity was likely very, very low on his list of priorities.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There are so many different ways to evaluate this trade. I think the Flames did good in the short term, but there is enough risk there that I don't think it's a grand slam at this point. Too early for victory laps anyway IMO. If both Weegar and Huberdeau are one-and-done, then it will prove to be a bad deal IMO. If they re-sign or get flipped for assets, that changes....

If Huberdeau and Weegar leave after 1 season, and the Flames don't win anything, I think a lot of people are going to look at the rumoured Carolina package in a better light. It would have been the safer deal...

Too much focus is set on whether BOTH Huberdeau and Weegar are signed long term or moved, which is weird to me. They are individual players who will make this decision independent of the other about staying in Calgary. Even if only one extends long term this deal is still a massive win for the Flames.

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[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

We are talking about one of the more business oriented players in the league here. Everything had been carefully calculated by his family and agent. If the offer from the Panthers was similar to the Blues offer I get the feeling that Treliving would have simply held on to Tkachuk until next season's trade deadline, if not flat out keep him if they were in a playoff position. The Flames still held the card of the 8th season and if Tkachuk played the 22/23 season in Calgary without Gaudreau his numbers would be a lot lower going into free agency. It was in Tkachuk's best interest to give the Flames ample opportunity to trade him this offseason coming off a peak season where he could ensure an 8 year contract. Helping out the Flames in any capacity was likely very, very low on his list of priorities.

Intent or not the end result has flames fans far more excited for next season. UFA/RFA none of that really matters to the fans who just want to see a good flames team on the ice. Treliving deserves the praise because he turned a player who wanted out with a limited set of teams he would go to into potentially 2 long term core pieces, and 2 young assets.

Perception is key and most fans perceive Tkachuk leaving and our team obtaining a franchise winger and top pairing D in return extremely favorably. Johnny leaving the way he did and equally importantly where he did doesn’t sit well with a large portion of the fans.

I fully agree Tkachuk has a better PR team around him and has come across looking great where Johnny was a deer the the headlights saying “just thought it was time for a change”. Tkachuk has a thank you video the next day, Johnny writes an article over a week later. Chucky handled this better because he was more prepared to move on. I do believe Johnny wasn’t sure until the last minute and he looks worse for it.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Even if only one extends long term this deal is still a massive win for the Flames.

I disagree It's only a massive win if both extend. It's a slight win if only Huberdeau extends, a slight loss if only Weegar extends, and a big loss if neither do.

[Flamesfan05]

Tkachuk was never going to come back for another contract.
Johnny got messed up in the process somewhere along the line but deep down there was no strong loyalty to the team.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I disagree It's only a massive win if both extend. It's a slight win if only Huberdeau extends, a slight loss if only Weegar extends, and a big loss if neither do.

I would expect that both players would fetch a very good return in addition to a 1st round pick and prospect already obtained. Clearly both staying would be the biggest win today but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the returns for one or both could lead to a big win in the future depending if the Flames were able to hit on the draft picks or prospects they would get in return.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I disagree It's only a massive win if both extend. It's a slight win if only Huberdeau extends, a slight loss if only Weegar extends, and a big loss if neither do.

Win scenarios:
- Both sign
- Either sign and the other is traded for more return
- Neither sign and both are traded for a return


Ok scenario:
- Either sign and the other walks

Lose scenarios:
- Neither sign, both walk and all we get is Schwindt and the lottery protected first

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Win scenarios:
- Both sign
- Either sign and the other is traded for more return
- Neither sign and both are traded for a return


Ok scenario:
- Either sign and the other walks

Lose scenarios:
- Neither sign, both walk and all we get is Schwindt and the lottery protected first

I think your ok scenario really depends on which one signs. If it is Hubredeau it is definitely ok, maybe even slightly better than ok and the Flames did very well in the trade. If Weeger signs and we lose Hubredeau for nothing it is probably slightly worse than ok and it is questionable whether the Flames did well in the trade. Other than that I agree with the breakdown.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I disagree It's only a massive win if both extend. It's a slight win if only Huberdeau extends, a slight loss if only Weegar extends, and a big loss if neither do.

Was the Kawhi Leonard trade a win for the Raptors?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Win scenarios:
- Both sign
- Either sign and the other is traded for more return
- Neither sign and both are traded for a return


Ok scenario:
- Either sign and the other walks

Lose scenarios:
- Neither sign, both walk and all we get is Schwindt and the lottery protected first

Yeah, I agree.

Of course, the lose scenario could become a win scenario if the Flames win the Cup with them before they walk.

Treliving really knocked this one out of the park IMO.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Funny part is I'm way more empathetic to Gaudreau's reason for wanting to leave than Tkachuks, which IMO he really hasn't said a real reason.

Gaudreau gave the team 8 years, was torn by the decision, and in the end decided to leave (to do what his family preferred) and was vilified for it.

Tkachuk pretty much forced a trade, and sure we got a good return, but really I don't see him as some hero here.

I don't have any feelings about their reasons. Their reasons are their own and who are we to judge them? They are also in very different stages of their lives. If Matthew picked Florida because of low tax rate, or just because he likes the beach - that's cool with me. And if Johnny picked for family reasons, that's cool too. These guys are making decisions on where to live - so I don't question any of that.

For me it has always been more about how they handled things. And in this way I have two primary issues with Johnny
1. He needed to get more real with himself about whether or not he wanted to be in Calgary. I appreciated he was conflicted, but get to a point of clarity sooner.
2. I do believe the Flames matched his offer, and thought it was done, and he backed out last minute.

That's why I respect how Tkachuk went about things more than Johnny.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would expect that both players would fetch a very good return in addition to a 1st round pick and prospect already obtained. Clearly both staying would be the biggest win today but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the returns for one or both could lead to a big win in the future depending if the Flames were able to hit on the draft picks or prospects they would get in return.

While I think that's true my estimation is that the Flames will be a very good team this upcoming season... following from that I don't think they would be traded so the theoretical return you could get for them doesn't matter.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Was the Kawhi Leonard trade a win for the Raptors?

Flames win the cup next year it is a win no matter what