[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

I would like to see

Mangiapane- Lindholm -Huberdeau

Weagar- Kyllington

Huberdeau anchored the back of the pp in Florida.
Could go something like,

Mang - Lindy - Toff
Weegar - Huby

[Calgary4LIfe]

After sleeping on it and digesting it... Still love it.


Caveat:
If Flames are contending, they need to re-sign Huberdeau and Weegar before doing so. If they won't extend, then these assets need to be flipped. That trade with Carolina wasn't so lopsided at all, until you factored that Carolina lost everyone for nothing (well, except Fox - two 2nd round picks). Treliving absolutely can't let these assets walk.


With that out of the way, let's just look at value.

Raise your hand if you think the Flames would have been screwed over by Tkachuk if he signed a big offersheet and returning 4 first round picks as compensation. I would have taken that. That never happens, but I would have been ok with that. This, I believe, is worth more than 4 first round picks.


In terms of 'futures', Calgary already has a 1st and prospect. Huberdeau is worth what right now? Easily a 1st and whatever team's best prospect - maybe not this year top 3 prospect, but whatever. For any contending team in the league right now, he is worth their best prospect. With retention, there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't pay through their nose to add Huberdeau @ 2.95 for the season. 1st, Best prospect, maybe another top prospect. Heck, 2 firsts isn't out of the question (doubtful, but not out of the question).


Weegar is probably worth a 1st too. Top pairing defenceman that can hit and put up good points? Easy 1st right there, and probably a 1st and a prospect. Good salary too @ 3.25. That's attractive.


That's 3 firsts, a blue-chip prospect, and 2 decent prospects by my count. Possibly the Flames can squeeze out more. That's SIGNIFICANT to whatever they want to do - compete now, or retool, or rebuild.


I do hope that the Flames figure out of they can extend these guys soon, so that the Flames can fill out the rest of the roster appropriately through trades/signings. If they won't extend, you have until the season starts - even a bit into the season (hold them out - not worth risking an injury).


This was VERY good asset management. Florida wins too - Tkachuk is a top end elite player that all 32 NHL teams would love as part of their core. That's 8 years of Tkachuk. Plus a 4th which is always something. I do think that Florida did well actually. I think both teams did very well. Big sigh of relief here.


Now I guess Huberdeau and Weegar help decide the direction of the Calgary Flames.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Eight years of a player who won't sign with you is worth...nothing. Given that MT wasn't going to re-sign with the Flames ANY return is good. (For evidence of that see: Gaudreau, John)

Well, do we know what the other trade proposals were from other teams? Because that’s how you would ultimately compare. I’m sure someone will leak that out to an insider in the coming days.

[Fischy13]

Originally Posted by Muta

I like your optimism! Pasta would be an amazing addition to this team. Doubt Boston is interested though.

I always thought there are rumblings of Hanafin wanting to go to Boston (home?) and if Krecji and Bergeron return, they need to shed somewhere and have a glut of top 6 forwards. Pasta isn’t signed right? Or in negotiations. Tre’s forte, well, maybe trades are now. But Flames lack that dynamic RW still. I think trading Hanifin, their top line LD, who’s now replaced with a new top line LD who’s more physical (Sutter type), they have a gluttony of D and a RW need. Cash out 5 mil on D and take the cap room now to pay Pasta. Seems logical. A top pair D has clout of the center position. Shouldn’t be far off for value of a top winger.

Just how I see it.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It’s a fair question. They could have discussed with the players the likelihood of extension before making the deal.

The uncertainty around Huberdeau and Weegar is why Florida made this deal. If that uncertainty was reduced, Florida's offer most likely would've been smaller.

Tree's best chance at a home run was to make the trade at maximum uncertainty, then work to reduce the uncertainty after. And it's not really even that high-risk of a strategy, because if you want you can just flip the players as rentals.

Originally Posted by devo22

unlikely, but after everything that happened these last couple of weeks it'd be such a boss move if they announced contract extensions for both at the presser today.

Yep, but you don't really want your reputation amongst GMs to be the guy who always wins trades. If I'm in Tree's position, I might even stall an extension a bit just to let Zito save a bit of face. (The comment on how Florida's deal was "by far the best" is also something I might've avoided.) You want the league's other GMs to see the trade and the signing as separate events.

[powderjunkie]

It seems FLA wanted to make a big change, but it's interesting that like us, they also would have been better positioned to give Huberdeau a big raise next year, as they would free up 10.6M in underutilized cap space from Hornqvist and buyouts.

On the other hand, maybe they're okay with 'just' contending this year, but waiting for that cap freedom to go all-in again the following season with Knight on a bridge, and Lundell more developed delivering maximum bang for buck on his ELC? They really need to improve their D.

Originally Posted by Boreal

I wonder if if would lose lottery protection in that situation. A 2027 1st round pick is a long way away.

Interesting question. It's an intriguing asset to have in our back pocket...by then we might even end up with a pair of top 5 picks in the same draft.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by SebC

The uncertainty around Huberdeau and Weegar is why Florida made this deal. If that uncertainty was reduced, Florida's offer most likely would've been smaller.

Tree's best chance at a home run was to make the trade at maximum uncertainty, then work to reduce the uncertainty after. And it's not really even that high-risk of a strategy, because if you want you can just flip the players as rentals.



Yep, but you don't really want your reputation amongst GMs to be the guy who always wins trades. If I'm in Tree's position, I might even stall an extension a bit just to let Zito save a bit of face. (The comment on how Florida's deal was "by far the best" is also something I might've avoided.) You want the league's other GMs to see the trade and the signing as separate events.

Can they sign the extension but not announce it? Honest question.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by camm13

Huberdeau anchored the back of the pp in Florida.
Could go something like,

Mang - Lindy - Toff
Weegar - Huby

Weegar isn't a PP guy and Huby never anchored the back lol.

Huby is on the sidewall and almost purely a setup guy

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

You say that like it's not a completely normal opinion to have

When I was saying it, it wasn't, lol.

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yeah like I said, it’s the silver lining out of everything, these guys can still fetch a bounty now or at the TDL, assuming Treliving doesn’t keep them for just an average playoff run. But again, I was in the rebuild camp, so I was hoping for an A+ type prospect that the Flames could’ve groomed for a decade +

They can still get it, that's what makes this trade so good.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Not just that, also...

Johnny at 10.5
Chucky at 9.5

= 20M of cap space committed to 2 players

Compared to

Huberdeau at 5.9
Weegar at 3.25

= 9.15M of cap space committed to 2 players

Difference of almost 11M in cap space for this upcoming season, allowing the team much more flexibility heading into the coming weeks & months.

Interesting way of spinning it. The reality is that you have Gaudreau and Tkachuk both committed to their new teams for eight years, while Huberdeau and Weegar are committed to the team through this season. The Flames are in the same situation they were just in, just kicking the can down the road a bit. They still have to get both players under contract long-term for this be a big win. If they sign long-term I fully expect the value of those contracts to be close to $16M+. Keep that in mind as you mull over the flexibility, especially when each additional player added prior to the extension of these players works against the amount can be spent to extend these two. Without these two under contract, the comparison between the state of Gaudreau and Tkachuk is not a fair comparison. Even with these two players we are still a forward short to possibly maintain last season's outcome.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Even with these two players we are still a forward short to possibly maintain last season's outcome.

While I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said here ... I will say, even considering as good as Tanev was last year, I still felt the Flames were short a true two-way #1 defenceman. They were fantastic defensively, but it was very much a group effort, and they didn't have that one dominant presence in all three zones they've had on the back-end in the past.

And now they've addressed that.

[Lanny_McDonald]

^^^ Defense was not impacted that much by the departures. Forwards have a massive hole in the mix. Needs to be addressed.

[TheScorpion]

Yup, I think they need to look at adding another strong playmaker into the fold. A lot of people undersold just how good Tkachuk was at creating different looks in the offensive zone.

Huberdeau is an incredible passer, one of the best in the league, but they still have a *lot* of guys who are primarily finishers.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

^^^ Defense was not impacted that much by the departures. Forwards have a massive hole in the mix. Needs to be addressed.

"Kylington, I now dub thee....A Winger, take your place amongst the forwards."

Problem sorted.

[b1crunch]

May have missed it but where can you watch a rerun of the Tre press conference from today? I only see a FLames TV 1 on 1 video. Can't seem to find the press conference.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

When I was saying it, it wasn't, lol.
\.

Sure lol

[AC]

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Weegar isn't a PP guy and Huby never anchored the back lol.

Huby is on the sidewall and almost purely a setup guy

Weegar is instantly our best puck moving defensemen. He didn't need to be on the pp in Florida cause they had Ekblad and Montour. And yes Huberdeau has anchored the back.

http://https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/florida-panthers/line-combinations/

[bluejays]

I do believe Tre when he says this was the best deal. The league GM’s consist of sharks and when there was blood in the water they wouldn’t give full value. Even this deal comes with risk. I’m satisfied with the deal itself but reserve calling it a definite win until there are signing(s) or a second deal to flip those guys. If they lose both it’s a loss. If they only sign Weeger it’s a loss. If they sign Huberdeau and lose Weeger it’s a win. Sign both it’s a definite win. Brad did very well though give. The circumstances I’ll give him that. Very creative to buy himself time.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Interesting way of spinning it. The reality is that you have Gaudreau and Tkachuk both committed to their new teams for eight years, while Huberdeau and Weegar are committed to the team through this season. The Flames are in the same situation they were just in, just kicking the can down the road a bit. They still have to get both players under contract long-term for this be a big win. If they sign long-term I fully expect the value of those contracts to be close to $16M+. Keep that in mind as you mull over the flexibility, especially when each additional player added prior to the extension of these players works against the amount can be spent to extend these two. Without these two under contract, the comparison between the state of Gaudreau and Tkachuk is not a fair comparison. Even with these two players we are still a forward short to possibly maintain last season's outcome.

We need to acknowledge that last year was an offensive aberration.

The entire league got COVID at one point or another. Often times you were playing teams that were barely icing NHL lineups.

Add to that, there was a three week break in the middle of the season when everyone got to recover from the nicks and dings of the first half.

There aren’t going to be eight 100 point players next year, and there won’t be sixteen 90 point players. That didn’t even happen in 2005-06.

The defense is better than it was 48 hours ago. The offense is possibly more consistent - Huberdeau has been more productive than Gaudreau the last 4 years. 345 points to Johnny’s 321.

Huberdeau is bigger and stronger than Gaudreau, and he’s a better skater than Tkachuk.

They were a top-10 team in offense and defense. Maybe they fall back a few places in goals For, but they could easily win the Jennings next year if the big change on the blue line is Weegar for Gudbranson.