[Signing] CBJ sign Laine to multi year deal (4 yrs, $8.7 mil AAV)

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Gaudreau and Tkachuk made Lindholm a Selke candidate?

I get that a high octane line makes the defensive center accumulate the stats to win the award, but that's really cutting Lindholm's talents short.

They don't spend half of the time they did in the offensive one without him working the puck low.

Add in his ability to slip into the slot and finish and you have a player that is a huge factor in that lines success.

Lindholm is the third impact player on that line. Third. Not a driver in any shape or form, a complimentary player. You can replace him with a number of players in every roster. Lindholm is a good player, but he isn't a player that drive the line forward. He's completely replicable on that line, which we will see soon enough.

[Johnny Makarov]

Goodrow will still get his 100-110 points the next 5-6 seasons but highly doubt they will make the playoffs for half of them let alone winning a round.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Lindholm is the third impact player on that line. Third. Not a driver in any shape or form, a complimentary player. You can replace him with a number of players in every roster. Lindholm is a good player, but he isn't a player that drive the line forward. He's completely replicable on that line, which we will see soon enough.

There's no way you're serious.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Lindholm is the third impact player on that line. Third. Not a driver in any shape or form, a complimentary player. You can replace him with a number of players in every roster. Lindholm is a good player, but he isn't a player that drive the line forward. He's completely replicable on that line, which we will see soon enough.

Drunk this early? At least it's a Friday I guess.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Lindholm made Lindholm a Selke candidate.

He's been one of the better two-way centers for years, so to suggest anyone who even "knows where the defensive zone is" could come close is just ignorant.

The production from Gaudreau and Tkachuk made Lindholm a Selke candidate, nothing more. He wasn't even the best +/- on the team, where Selke voters focus. I love Lindholm, but let's acknowledge he was he was the third best player on his line, by a sizable margin. Lindholm doesn't get recognition without the scoring exploits of Gaudreau and Tkachuk. He doesn't repeat next season without equitable talent

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Lindholm is the third impact player on that line. Third. Not a driver in any shape or form, a complimentary player. You can replace him with a number of players in every roster. Lindholm is a good player, but he isn't a player that drive the line forward. He's completely replicable on that line, which we will see soon enough.

It was the best line in hockey 5v5. The major reason was Lindholm's defensive prowess. Lindholm was not as good offensively as the other two but far superior in his own end.

How many PPG selke calibre centres are there in the league?

[Johnny Makarov]

This is bonkers. If I had a choice of either Tkachuk or Lindholm on that line I would choose Lindholm. Not even counting cap.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by blankall

How many PPG selke calibre centres are there in the league?

Between Gaudreau and Tkachuk from last season? 20+. I like Lindholm, but you could plug a number of centers between those two and achieve success. That's how good Gaudreau and Tkachuk were last season. The Flames are going to feel the pinch hard if they believe Lindholm will repeat his performance and will result in a Selke nomination. 20+ teams can put a center between these two and generate similar results. Elisas is a good center, but le'd not kid ourselves, he was not a line driver nor a player that could not have been easily replaced.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Lindholm is the third impact player on that line. Third. Not a driver in any shape or form, a complimentary player. You can replace him with a number of players in every roster. Lindholm is a good player, but he isn't a player that drive the line forward. He's completely replicable on that line, which we will see soon enough.

Lets just say I disagree.

He's third in offensive impacts, but 1st in defensive impacts and transition.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Between Gaudreau and Tkachuk from last season? 20+. I like Lindholm, but you could plug a number of centers between those two and achieve success. That's how good Gaudreau and Tkachuk were last season. The Flames are going to feel the pinch hard if they believe Lindholm will repeat his performance and will result in a Selke nomination. 20+ teams can put a center between these two and generate similar results. Elisas is a good center, but le'd not kid ourselves, he was not a line driver nor a player that could not have been easily replaced.

Plug Backlund in there and see how that goes.

Lindholm was second in Selke votes to Hall of famer Bergeron, that’s like being second in Norris votes to Lidstrom.

Lindholm has a wicked shot and knows how to get there, there aren’t many defensive centers that also put up 40 goals.

[OILFAN #81]

Judging everything overall:

Gaudreau > Lindholm > Tkachuk.

That's my viewpoint anyways.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Between Gaudreau and Tkachuk from last season? 20+. I like Lindholm, but you could plug a number of centers between those two and achieve success. That's how good Gaudreau and Tkachuk were last season. The Flames are going to feel the pinch hard if they believe Lindholm will repeat his performance and will result in a Selke nomination. 20+ teams can put a center between these two and generate similar results. Elisas is a good center, but le'd not kid ourselves, he was not a line driver nor a player that could not have been easily replaced.

His stats over the last four years, not just with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, say otherwise.

League leading two-way center. Won't produce as much next season, but saying his defensive abilities and therefore him as a player can be easily replaced is, as I said, ignorant nonsense.

I'm not sure what super limited viewing experience you'd have to have to come to that conclusion. Neither the stats nor the eye test back your conclusion. But keep on keeping on.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lets just say I disagree.

He's third in offensive impacts, but 1st in defensive impacts and transition.

We're about to find out the importance of the defensive side of the puck versus the offensive side of the puck. Lindholm will NOT repeat his performance from last season with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. The other two will continue to be top offensive threats without Lindholm. The fancy stats currently say one thing, but when the loss of Gaudreau and Tkachuk are finally measured, Lindholm is going to be left wanting. I can' believe you would think otherwise? A line loses its top two producers, what is the impact going to be? Significant, and is not in the favor of the player left behind.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The production from Gaudreau and Tkachuk made Lindholm a Selke candidate, nothing more. He wasn't even the best +/- on the team, where Selke voters focus.

Not that I really care to defend voters but it's less +/- and more established reputation.

The 2015 Selke winner was +2. Good for 11th on his team and tied for 271st in the league.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

We're about to find out the importance of the defensive side of the puck versus the offensive side of the puck. Lindholm will NOT repeat his performance from last season with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. The other two will continue to be top offensive threats without Lindholm. The fancy stats currently say one thing, but when the loss of Gaudreau and Tkachuk are finally measured, Lindholm is going to be left wanting. I can' believe you would think otherwise? A line loses its top two producers, what is the impact going to be? Significant, and is not in the favor of the player left behind.

All three will continue to be who they are.

Lindholm will remain and elite two way player with reduced production as he's playing with lesser players.

Chances are Gaudreau and Tkachuk will take a step back because they don't have each other, nor an elite defensive center to make sure they spend 60% of each hockey game in the offensive zone.

And enough with the fancy stats crap, they're not fancy. They just point to a line dominating, which they did.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

All three will continue to be who they are.

And the weakest of the bunch will be exposed the quickest. Simple as that. Suggesting that Lindholm was a driver on this line any shape or form is just weak soup. He was the third wheel and we're about to feel that.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And the weakest of the bunch will be exposed the quickest. Simple as that. Suggesting that Lindholm was a driver on this line any shape or form is just weak soup. He was the third wheel and we're about to feel that.

Were you listening to games on the radio and not watching them on tv all last year?

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And the weakest of the bunch will be exposed the quickest. Simple as that. Suggesting that Lindholm was a driver on this line any shape or form is just weak soup. He was the third wheel and we're about to feel that.

All three players are line drivers and that's why they all had career years. Next years' production will depend on their new linemates. To suggest otherwise in any shape or form is just weak soup.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And the weakest of the bunch will be exposed the quickest. Simple as that. Suggesting that Lindholm was a driver on this line any shape or form is just weak soup. He was the third wheel and we're about to feel that.

Weak soup is saying I said driver when I didn't.

Really weak soup is any of the following ...

-Not a driver in any shape or form
-complimentary player
-You can replace him with a number of players in every roster
-He's completely replicable on that line

You're need for shock and awe on a message board never serves you well.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And the weakest of the bunch will be exposed the quickest. Simple as that. Suggesting that Lindholm was a driver on this line any shape or form is just weak soup. He was the third wheel and we're about to feel that.

The weakest offensively of three, sure. Who are you pretending to argue with? He's by far the strongest defensively. He plays a different role entirely, one which enabled Tkachuk and Gaudreau to play their roles to perfection.

He's not going to be exposed unless you thought he was different than what he's obviously been since the day he arrived. He's going to remain one of the best defensive centers in the league. He's going to continue leading the penalty kill without Gaudreau and Tkachuk (his 640 SH minutes compared to their combined 20 SH minutes). He's going to continue taking the most defensive draws and being our best guy in the face-off circle. He's also going to continue having the least giveaways (Gaudreau and Tkachuk had the most), the most blocked shots, and doing all the other things league leading two-way centers excel at.

His point production is going to drop, likely by double digit points depending on who ends up on the top line with him. But he was an 82 point center when playing with two offensive wingers who led the league with 100+ points each... were you under the impression he was some kind of offensive phenom at only 82 points in that situation? What revelation do you think you're making by suggesting his points are going to drop or that he was the weakest offensively? You can read a stat line, right? Cause we all see it.