Brad Treliving needs to go

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I find it hard to give Treliving the credit for having the foresight to trade Tkachuk at this point.

That's like giving him credit for not signing Gaudreau to a cap crippling contract.

He put him to arbitration, which avoided him just taking the QO and running out the year. It set up a decision requirement for Tkachuk saying yes or no to long term. Which sets up the trade.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I find it hard to give Treliving the credit for having the foresight to trade Tkachuk at this point.

That's like giving him credit for not signing Gaudreau to a cap crippling contract.

We give him credit for trading for Lucic, why not give him credit for having the foresight to trade Tkachuk.

[powderjunkie]

This is a bit of a fatalist argument, but I question how much success was ever actually possible.

We know the teams that dominated from 2009-2018: PIT/CHI/LAK/BOS/WAS (+SJ/ANA/TBL and maybe a few other teams like NAS). The overwhelming majority of the best/most important players on these teams were drafted 2003-2009 (especially '03-06). Which may not seem shocking, but it's definitely a huge concentration of talent compared to the 4 years on either side of the span.

With STL's cup it started to shift slightly later (Tarasenko 2010, Binnington 2011, Parayko 2012), but Pietrangelo, ROR*, Schenn* were still from 08-09. (*not drafted by STL)

TBL had Hedman 2009, Stamkos 2008 (not really a factor in cup 1), Killorn 2007, but of course they made a bunch more great deals and picks to reach their heights.

COL is really the first great team to really be built primarily in the 2010s (and even then they've continued to benefit from late ought's assets like ROR/Duchene/Barrie/Shattenkirk/Stewart).


The next question is, what very good teams have been built in a similar time period as these Flames? Honestly asking...haven't done a deep enough dive, but:

CAR and NYI come to mind...both had a couple years head start on CGY (and some good assets from the oughts).

LAK and NYR have essentially torn down and rebuilt in that span and their futures look promising.

FLA has had a lot of good luck and a decent head start, but have yet to reach CGY's high water mark (though obviously the future still looks pretty bright). Similar for TOR.

WPG started a bit earlier and has won 1 more PO series.


From that 03-09 bonanza, the Flames drafted 3 players who played 500+ gp (Phaneuf/Backlund/Brodie; Prust = 486). I am pretty sure that is the fewest of any team (only checked a few teams so far, but EDM is the lowest I've come across at 7) and probably among the lowest in quality (with no disrespect to those very good players).


TLDR: it's probably been futile. We missed the boat on a bonanza of great players who have dominated the last ~15 years.

On the bright side, we've done a bit better in the 2015-17 bonanza, and hopefully those assets will pay dividends...it may just take a long time.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

And we have had 3.6 Roentgen for 8 years now so it is taking a cumulative toll. You don’t notice it at first but it eventually sneaks up on you.

Last season was the 'Latency period' and now we're experiencing the Radiation Sickness.

Its Chernobyl all over again...but not the 'good' Chernobyl of the mini-series awesomeness...its the 'bad' Chernobyl....the real meltdown.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Toonage

If Coronato ends up wanting out, and Tre is still the guy in charge, that's the fireable offence.

So many assurances, then this disaster of an off season, followed by the kid wanting to Adam Fox us. That'd be it.

Did I miss something? Were any assurances made?

[Mathgod]

Looking at the last 3 playoffs combined, the leaders in 5 on 5 points/60 (minimum 60 minutes) are as follows:

1 and 2 are McDrai, drafted in 2014 and 2015.

3 is Burakovsky, drafted in 2013 but traded to the Avs in 2019.

4 is Micheal Stone! Small sample size, but he's done well to help provide offense in the limited playoff minutes he's gotten. Should play a big role on the Flames with the Gudbranson departure. (wrote this before realizing he went to UFA and hasn't re-signed with the Flames)

5 is Evander Kane (yuck). Drafted in 2009.

6 is Clayton Keller, but the bubble play-in round inflated his point production.

7 is Kevin Hayes. Drafted in 2010.

8 and 9 are Trevor Moore and Matthew Highmore. Small sample size in both cases. Both undrafted.

10 is Carter Verhaeghe. Drafted in 2013.

11 is... wait for it... Nazem Kadri. Drafted in 2009.

The next three are Mackinnon, Toews, and Kane. All drafted 2013 or prior.

So powder's point is well made. Players (yes, even top talents) typically take quite some time before they round into playoff performers. (However, Kane & Toews were obviously terrific for the Hawks right off the bat)

[NegativeSpace]

To Gio. You could also add bought out Brower to the list of mistakes that he has since tried to fix.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

So continue with the train wreck until a good option appears? You are telling me that out of all the people employed in the NHL, you won’t find people better than Treliving?

The team was hardly a train wreck.

Who's better that's currently available? And would they come to Calgary?

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Shazam

The team was hardly a train wreck.

Who's better that's currently available? And would they come to Calgary?

Is it not a train wreck now? I want to know your definition of a train wreck? Also, if you don't think there are better candidates, it doesn't make it true.

[dino7c]

Next GM will have the same geography...Brad would be hired elsewhere almost immediately IMO

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Shazam

The team was hardly a train wreck.

Who's better that's currently available? And would they come to Calgary?

111 points train wreck, guys leaving because of geography and a building the GM has zero control over

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Did I miss something? Were any assurances made?

He was asked about signing another Harvard kid after what happened with Adam Fox.

Sorry for the Francis article

https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/fla...rn-to-harvard/

This was one instance where he had to answer the question and answered the same each time.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

Is it not a train wreck now? I want to know your definition of a train wreck? Also, if you don't think there are better candidates, it doesn't make it true.

To be clear, I'm not a huge fan of BT.

I really truly do not know if there are currently better available GMs available, because quite frankly I don't care enough to research.

[hah]

I think Treliving should be relieved of his duties immediately.


Having said that the Gaudreau/Tkachuk situation could be a blessing in disguise. It is unfortunate they way the team lost Gaudreau, hopefully Treliving can get some decent assets back for Tkachuk. My point is the team will no longer have these two locked up long term, and over paid. These guys barely got the team out of the first round and the team was pummeled in the 2nd round of the playoffs. The Flames historically under many GMs typically hold on to "star" players too long.



Trelving should get Frederick Gaudreau or Barclay Goodrow.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Next GM will have the same geography...Brad would be hired elsewhere almost immediately IMO

Of course he would. Boston Pizza is always hiring.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Of course he would. Boston Pizza is always hiring.

low hanging fruit there, Lanny. Would have expected better.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

111 points train wreck, guys leaving because of geography and a building the GM has zero control over

Johnny left because of geography. Tkachuk is leaving because the team is trending down. If we believe the rumours, he said he would sign if Johnny did. I also think if the team was truly a contender, Johnny would have been more likely to stay. Even if Johnny and Tkachuk came back, the team would be worse on paper this year than last. After getting smoked by the Oilers and barely beating Dallas, I don't think anyone was viewing the Flames as a top team in the west. The Sutter bump is likely gone this year. Career years likely do not happen again. Everything went right last year, and they were exposed big time in the playoffs. Flames will be back to their usual.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Toonage

He was asked about signing another Harvard kid after what happened with Adam Fox.

Sorry for the Francis article

https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/fla...rn-to-harvard/

This was one instance where he had to answer the question and answered the same each time.

First of all, what is Treliving supposed to say? 'I think it's 50/50 we are going to sign him'? They drafted the best player, or best fit, on their list regardless of where they were born, and, frankly, they should continue to to exactly that. If you have to go searching for a Matt Coronoto piece to support your stance, which is bit of a stretch, then sure, lets discuss.

Thanks for sharing this link, honestly, a quote that stood out to me from Treliving is 'You have to do your homework and believe what they are telling you.' There it is. How different is this from what Fox or Gaudreau said to Treliving? Of course, none of us were there and won't know exactly, but initially I believe Fox did attend Flames development camps and did not provide any indication that he was looking to leave and Gaudreau, on at least two occasions, publicly stated he wanted to stay and even said he saw himself as a life long Flame.

Pretty sure if the Flames started to treat every 18 or 19 year old American, or otherwise, as liar's that wouldn't work out well for them on any level regardless of the players nationality. Relationships are built on trust and that is why losing Gaudreau is a damaging as it appears to be, which is significant for at least the short term.

In my opinion the Flames haven't done anything wrong. If there is blame to be had, it's on Gaudreau and I suspect that will sit with him for quite some time, unless he is a sociopath which I don't think he is. Gaurdreau did the Flames dirty and he should know it. At least Tkachuk has the dignity/spine/gumption to say it like it is. Same with Fox. Graudreau crop dusted the gathering and slunk out the back door. Coward.

[driveway]

What he gets for Tkachuk is going to colour my view of Treliving moving forward.

The market-setting trade for Tkachuk is Jack Eichel. Their statistics are shockingly similar, Eichel produces slightly more points, Tkachuk is noticeably better at possession. When Eichel was traded the return was Tuch, Krebs, 1st, 2nd. Eichel was under contract for 5 more years at 10 million and had a broken neck.

When Tkachuk is traded, he will either have already signed, or with the clear understanding that he will immediately sign a 7-or-8-year contract, it should also be noted that he has not ever broken his neck.

Tuch and Krebs were both 1st round picks, Tuch compares well with both Kyrou and Bratt, two names thrown around a lot as potential returns, though both of their 2021-22 seasons were better than Tuch's 18-19 season (his last non-covid season before the trade). Krebs was the centerpiece of the deal, having been an extremely exciting prospect before an achilles injury dropped him all the way to 17th overall, but he'd returned from that injury (and a broken jaw from a puck) to become Vegas' #1 prospect at the time of the trade.

The 1st Vegas sent was top-10 protected, and Buffalo sent a 3rd back the other way, and we all know there was only one other team seriously bidding for Eichel at the time.

There is more certainty around Tkachuk's ability to be a productive player right now than there was around Eichel last year. Additionally, the team getting Tkachuk will be getting him for longer than Vegas is guaranteed to have Eichel, and the price is likely to be similar or slightly less than the 10 million per year that Eichel is being paid. Ultimately, Tkachuk should command a higher price than Eichel.

In summary, the package the Flames get mustbe better than what Buffalo got for Eichel for me to consider the trade a "win" for Treliving. A player with 4-5 seasons played in the NHL and at least one 20 goal 50 point season, a blue-chip prospect who is the "best part" of the deal, and a 1st round pick would be the absolute minimum.

[Moneyhands23]

Is it time for Conroy to run the team?