To Calgary | By Johnny Gaudreau

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nah. Changes nothing. Treliving said at the draft that priority was to re-sign both players. Had Gaudreau informed them the days prior to the draft, Treliving still would have been trying to sign Tkachuk.

You're assuming that. It may or may not have been true. It's entirely possible that if Tre & Edwards knew Johnny wasn't re-signing, any realistic shot at making a deep playoff run in 2023 just went out the window, and they may have decided at that point to do a re-tool on the fly which involved moving Chucky at the draft.

Instead, believing that Johnny was staying, they wanted to keep the band together and kept signing both of them as their top priority.

For weeks people kept saying that players/agents always take it to the last minutes as a positive that Johnny may return but when it goes down to the last hours as they predicted with a different outcome all of a sudden the player did a disservice to the team.

People were saying that because they believed Johnny was staying in Calgary but was simply trying to maximize the contract value. Then at the last minute when he suddenly said he wasn't coming back to Calgary, it felt like a punch in the mouth to Flames fans. You can't blame us for feeling that way.

That's not the way that it works as the player doesn't have to rush a decision just to make fans happy.

It's not even a matter of loyalty, it's a matter of basic decency. The team that gave you a shot, set you up for success and embraced you for all these years, kind of expects some honesty in return. If you are planning on leaving, make that known to the organization so they can plan for the future accordingly. Leaving the decision to the last minute really hurt the team.

If Johnny really wanted to make a kind gesture to Calgary on his way out, he could have asked permission to talk to other teams weeks prior to the UFA dealine, got an idea of what kind of market there was for him, made it known to the Flyers that he wanted to go there, and arranged a sign-&-trade between the Flames & Flyers. That way the Flyers get Johnny on a home town discount contract, the Flames get assets, and Johnny gets to play where he really wants to play. Win-win-win all the way across. That's what loyalty to the Flames would have looked like.

But, he chose not to do that. It was his right to handle things the way he wanted to, sure. But he comes across as a guy who wanted his cake and wanted to eat it too, and took a very unintelligent approach to it all. In the end, the Flames avoid spending $10.5x8 on a guy who doesn't seem to prioritize team success and winning Stanley Cups. Not the worst outcome after all.

Johnny didn't have a 'Flames can't make moves clause' in his expiring contract.

Committing $10.5M/yr over 8 years really did limit the other moves they could make, especially since they were also setting aside big money to keep Tkachuk.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

You're assuming that. It may or may not have been true. It's entirely possible that if Tre & Edwards knew Johnny wasn't re-signing, any realistic shot at making a deep playoff run in 2023 just went out the window, and they may have decided at that point to do a re-tool on the fly which involved moving Chucky at the draft.

As are you. Tkachuk is still being moved. It's debatable if he would have fetched a better return at the draft given we truly don't know the list of teams he would consider signing long term as well the Flames may have been rushed to make a deal prior to the draft. The Devils 2OA trade return was never confirmed as true and lest not forget a 1st round pick in the 2023 draft carries more weight than a 1st round pick in the 2022 draft as it's a better draft. Now they have time to talk to teams and choose the best deal. It's totally fair for fans to be upset he chose not to sign with the Flames but being mad about the last minute decision is dumb because outside of Edwards having a hissy fit because he didn't get his way, it never really mattered in the big picture for the Flames.

[Makarov]

OK, seriously, this wasn't the "nice thing for Calgary" that Gaudreau referred to, right? RIGHT?!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Makarov

OK, seriously, this wasn't the "nice thing for Calgary" that Gaudreau referred to, right? RIGHT?!

It was. He's done.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

I do have a counter to everyone saying "what would we have really gotten for him even if we knew before"?

What round/pick was John picked up in again? Every asset counts.

And lastly, it also diverted attention away from making other moves...I'm not going to begin to speculate on if there was any hope on locking down Tkachuk before but just broadly speaking it diverted attention elsewhere.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As are you. Tkachuk is still being moved. It's debatable if he would have fetched a better return at the draft given we truly don't know the list of teams he would consider signing long term as well the Flames may have been rushed to make a deal prior to the draft. The Devils 2OA trade return was never confirmed as true and lest not forget a 1st round pick in the 2023 draft carries more weight than a 1st round pick in the 2022 draft as it's a better draft. Now they have time to talk to teams and choose the best deal. It's totally fair for fans to be upset he chose not to sign with the Flames but being mad about the last minute decision is dumb because outside of Edwards having a hissy fit because he didn't get his way, it never really mattered in the big picture for the Flames.

Again you don't know what kind of trades might have been available if they had started their offseason negotiations sooner, so it's wrong to just assume Johnny's delay didn't have a bad impact on the team.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Again you don't know what kind of trades might have been available if they had started their offseason negotiations sooner, so it's wrong to just assume Johnny's delay didn't have a bad impact on the team.

Again you don't know if any trade at the draft would have been any better than now or if Treliving would have even be interested in moving Tkachuk at the draft given he was still trying to sign him. It's wrong to Assume that Johnny's delay had an impact on the team.

[CroFlames]

The piece confirms what I suspected.


He wanted to stay in Calgary, but his dad's heart attack and having your first kid can change everything. Even still, he was torn about wanting to stay and wanting to go home, and that's why the decision came at the 11th hour.



Superstars have the ability to pick where they play. If I was him, I would have viewed the situation as an 8-year assignment in Canada where I can earn boatloads of money, cement a legacy, and chase a Cup. Then go home when you are 36.


He chose to go "home" now and leave all those things on the table. To each their own. All the best in life filled with happiness, but I hope you never sniff the playoffs again.

[PuckSlap]

Some members are already starting to justify him not wanting to play here. Same with Tkachuk. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

If the oilers can bring in players and keep them, why can’t the flames?

2002-2007 Calgary was undoubtedly the place to be. The city was alive and thriving. There is something wrong with this place as of late and all the signs are there.

No new arena

Players leaving town

Downtown is basically dead

Mixed opinions in the idea of Olympics making a return.

I’ve never seen this city so divided politically

When I moved back to Calgary, in 1999 - we were voted the cleanest city 2 years or more in a row and I couldn’t have been prouder to be home.

When I was a kid here in the 80s and early 90s, we knew all our neighbours. I lived in my home now for 13 years, and maybe spoke to 2 of them.

This place isn’t what it used to be. But I still
Love it. In my honest opinion, it is without a doubt, the best city in Canada. But it definitely seems to be losing its charm.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Again you don't know if any trade at the draft would have been any better than now or if Treliving would have even be interested in moving Tkachuk at the draft given he was still trying to sign him. It's wrong to Assume that Johnny's delay had an impact on the team.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm just saying that it's generally helpful not to have all your offseason operations put on hold for a month while one player's indecision holds everything up.

Kind of like if you have an earlier draft pick than someone else, it's not a guarantee that you'll end up with the better player, but as a general rule it's still better to have the earlier pick. There's no assumption that the earlier pick will result in the better player, but there's still acknowledgement that an earlier pick is more valuable than a later pick.

I’ve never seen this city so divided politically

I think that's a phenomenon happening everywhere, not just in our city.

[PuckSlap]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I'm not assuming anything, I'm just saying that it's generally helpful not to have all your offseason operations put on hold for a month while one player's indecision holds everything up.

Kind of like if you have an earlier draft pick than someone else, it's not a guarantee that you'll end up with the better player, but as a general rule it's still better to have the earlier pick. There's no assumption that the earlier pick will result in the better player, but there's still acknowledgement that an earlier pick is more valuable than a later pick.



I think that's a phenomenon happening everywhere, not just in our city.

I agree, but Calgary is or was primarily conservative. And it’s not like things have really gotten better here as it’s gotten to be more progressive. And this is coming from a guy who is not a conservative minded person.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

Some members are already starting to justify him not wanting to play here. Same with Tkachuk. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

If the oilers can bring in players and keep them, why can’t the flames?

2002-2007 Calgary was undoubtedly the place to be. The city was alive and thriving. There is something wrong with this place as of late and all the signs are there.

No new arena

Players leaving town

Downtown is basically dead

Mixed opinions in the idea of Olympics making a return.

I’ve never seen this city so divided politically

When I moved back to Calgary, in 1999 - we were voted the cleanest city 2 years or more in a row and I couldn’t have been prouder to be home.

When I was a kid here in the 80s and early 90s, we knew all our neighbours. I lived in my home now for 13 years, and maybe spoke to 2 of them.

This place isn’t what it used to be. But I still
Love it. In my honest opinion, it is without a doubt, the best city in Canada. But it definitely seems to be losing its charm.

Ah yes, the glory days of 2002 for both the city and team. We all reminisce about those days. Back when we talked to neighbours and the city was so clean you could eat off the seats on the ctrain.

What a load of rubbish.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I'm sure I'll add nothing that hasn't been said. But after reading Johnny's Player Tribune article, here are my thoughts.

To start, regardless of what I say, I fully understand, Johnny never did anything that wasn't within his "rights" to do. But I will say, people tend to fall back on that argument when they do something crappy to someone they don't want to be held accountable for. Sure, you are allowed to do it, but doesn't mean it was the best thing you could have done, and doesn't mean it was necessary.

I read the article, and for the most part with out getting into details, I believe him. I don't think he's lying. I think he considered re-signing here, I think he didn't know until the last minute. And I think the positive things he had to say about the org, the team and the city, all legit.

What this means, is sure, he didn't TRY or Intentionally go out of his way to screw the Flames. I believe this. But it doesn't mean that the way he handled this didn't screw us, or shouldn't leave a bad taste in our mouths. His actions may not have been malicious, but they are not in my opinion appropriate actions you take if you truly respect the organization, and like the Flames and the city. He owed us better than that.

And I don't mean, he owed us to stay. What he owed an organization he respects, and a fan base he respects, was a more timely decision. What we have now learned in hindsight, was that there was no $$ figure (reasonable) that the Flames could have tabled that would have got him to stay. If you allow negotiations to go to the 11th hour with the Flames, it should be a reasonable expectation that there is a reasonable premium the Flames could have paid to retain his services. I never thought that Calgary was his "preferred" destination. But as these negotiations got dragged out with no announcement of either side from moving on, it should have been a reasonable expectation that there was a number that the Flames could offer that Johnny would forgo the opportunity to play in his ideal location and sign with us.

What we learned after, is that, that decision wasn't even made by Johnny (and his team / family) until the 11th hour. Not to minimise the importance of the decision, but that is simply not something you do to an organization and fan base you respect. He had months to figure that part out. To figure out, no matter how rich the offer, Calgary wasn't an option, to discuss with his family and he didn't do that. That is disrespectful, and to me is the part as a fan I don't accept.

We can critique the Flames all we want on this, but they had no reason, based on the info they were getting from the Johnny's camp, that a Calgary premium was not something that might get considered. It would never be a sure thing, but I'm sure it stings to learn at the 11th hour, that there was nothing you could have offered that would have been good enough. It's one thing to gamble on if you can hit the number, it's another to learn at the last minute that you were never in the game.

IMO given his feelings on the org and the market, Johnny owed the Flames a decision on the fact he wouldn't even consider being here far before he did. His lack of action is disrespectful, even if it wasn't intentional

[timun]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

2002-2007 Calgary was undoubtedly the place to be. The city was alive and thriving. There is something wrong with this place as of late and all the signs are there.

<...>

When I was a kid here in the 80s and early 90s, we knew all our neighbours. I lived in my home now for 13 years, and maybe spoke to 2 of them.

This place isn’t what it used to be.

This is, frankly, a bunch of "remember the good ol' days?" pablum. The '80s and '90s were not as idyllic as you remember, and today isn't as ####ty as you think it is by comparison.

[powderjunkie]

I'm highly skeptical that if he decided earlier that many people would be saying "well, at least he told us now instead of 10 days from now!"

We'd see the same irrational vitriol, though probably more balanced in distribution to both Johnny and the Flames. By waiting, at least the Flames got a scapegoat!

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

I do have a counter to everyone saying "what would we have really gotten for him even if we knew before"?

What round/pick was John picked up in again? Every asset counts.

And lastly, it also diverted attention away from making other moves...I'm not going to begin to speculate on if there was any hope on locking down Tkachuk before but just broadly speaking it diverted attention elsewhere.

The funny thing is that if they went the route of giving permission to talk to other teams on the hope of a draft pick he would have discovered how soft the market was for him, and we'd likely have this [alleged] immature little prick who everyone didn't know they hated locked up for 8 years. Sliding doors moments.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I'm sure I'll add nothing that hasn't been said. But after reading Johnny's Player Tribune article, here are my thoughts.

To start, regardless of what I say, I fully understand, Johnny never did anything that wasn't within his "rights" to do. But I will say, people tend to fall back on that argument when they do something crappy to someone they don't want to be held accountable for. Sure, you are allowed to do it, but doesn't mean it was the best thing you could have done, and doesn't mean it was necessary.

I read the article, and for the most part with out getting into details, I believe him. I don't think he's lying. I think he considered re-signing here, I think he didn't know until the last minute. And I think the positive things he had to say about the org, the team and the city, all legit.

What this means, is sure, he didn't TRY or Intentionally go out of his way to screw the Flames. I believe this. But it doesn't mean that the way he handled this didn't screw us, or shouldn't leave a bad taste in our mouths. His actions may not have been malicious, but they are not in my opinion appropriate actions you take if you truly respect the organization, and like the Flames and the city. He owed us better than that.

And I don't mean, he owed us to stay. What he owed an organization he respects, and a fan base he respects, was a more timely decision. What we have now learned in hindsight, was that there was no $$ figure (reasonable) that the Flames could have tabled that would have got him to stay. If you allow negotiations to go to the 11th hour with the Flames, it should be a reasonable expectation that there is a reasonable premium the Flames could have paid to retain his services. I never thought that Calgary was his "preferred" destination. But as these negotiations got dragged out with no announcement of either side from moving on, it should have been a reasonable expectation that there was a number that the Flames could offer that Johnny would forgo the opportunity to play in his ideal location and sign with us.

What we learned after, is that, that decision wasn't even made by Johnny (and his team / family) until the 11th hour. Not to minimise the importance of the decision, but that is simply not something you do to an organization and fan base you respect. He had months to figure that part out. To figure out, no matter how rich the offer, Calgary wasn't an option, to discuss with his family and he didn't do that. That is disrespectful, and to me is the part as a fan I don't accept.

We can critique the Flames all we want on this, but they had no reason, based on the info they were getting from the Johnny's camp, that a Calgary premium was not something that might get considered. It would never be a sure thing, but I'm sure it stings to learn at the 11th hour, that there was nothing you could have offered that would have been good enough. It's one thing to gamble on if you can hit the number, it's another to learn at the last minute that you were never in the game.

IMO given his feelings on the org and the market, Johnny owed the Flames a decision on the fact he wouldn't even consider being here far before he did. His lack of action is disrespectful, even if it wasn't intentional

And to state that he vacillated until the last minute, then he hits the market and signs in Columbus of all places with the quote"I don't care just get it done"?... Doesn't sound like a guy who was really reconsidering so I'm not buying what Johnnies trying sell 4 days after the fact.

[PuckSlap]

Originally Posted by timun

This is, frankly, a bunch of "remember the good ol' days?" pablum. The '80s and '90s were not as idyllic as you remember, and today isn't as ####ty as you think it is by comparison.

Actually, it is pretty ####. You can tell by the stats. Crime and murder rate alone. Poverty, homelessness and hate crimes.

Population isn’t the problem, we’re sitting around the same as we were over the past 20 years.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The funny thing is that if they went the route of giving permission to talk to other teams on the hope of a draft pick he would have discovered how soft the market was for him, and we'd likely have this [alleged] immature little prick who everyone didn't know they hated locked up for 8 years. Sliding doors moments.

Word would have gotten around to other teams about JG's last minute stunt on the Flames. I wonder if that was a factor in the softer market for him in free agency?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Word would have gotten around to other teams about JG's last minute stunt on the Flames. I wonder if that was a factor in the softer market for him in free agency?

I highly doubt it. Teams don't give a #### if it's a chance for them to jump on an opportunity to make themselves better.

[littlereddevil]

Well, economic trouble does a lot to a city to divide it. It breaks social bonds. People tend to worry only about themselves and their immediate loved ones. There's less of that "good neighbour" attitude.

Then we add a once in a lifetime pandemic, where people are forced to stay home, and people get divided via social media algorithms and being affected vastly differently by pandemic policies.

Calgary has just had it harder than other cities in Canada because of the oil slump. I'm not sure when this city will recover (but it will recover), but when it eventually does, I'm sure we'll become a more desirable location for NHL players.

Maybe some people here need perspective. Problems exist in every city in Canada, we're not in a unique position. I lived in Montreal for 3 years. The city's plagued by corruption, incompetence (they can never get any infrastructure projects finished), racism and crime. Not to mention the constant language wars. But I loved the city despite living there, and that was because I found my "group" and did my best to ignore the obvious problems (and most of all we just laughed at how horribly bad construction was). I lived in Toronto for 2 years. The city's so crazy expensive I felt like I had to hustle just to survive in the city, and people felt distant and cold for that reason (probably because everyone was going through the same thing). It was also a very politically divided city in my opinion (and that was before the pandemic). Toronto reminded me of my times travelling in the U.S. where cities are segregated by class and race.

Don't worry, in time I think we'll become a more desirable location. I think that you have to realize that Johnny was clearly torn about re-signing here, and was strongly considering staying... it's just that life got in the way (notably his dad), and it's hard to justify being far away from family, separated by a border during such uncertain times, for such a long period of time. And we all knew that Gaudreau leaving would be the domino to fall leading to Tkachuk also leaving the team. But if you were to still ask guys in the room about their feelings about playing for the team, many would say that they still love the organization and team. That's not our fault. It looks they've created a great team, and we genuinely did make that step forward this past year (and maybe that's why it feels so tough following this off-season).

We've just had very rotten luck, all based on circumstance. It's the nature of the game. All sports teams go through these ups and downs. I'm sure Leafs and Oilers fans will be nervous about the fate of their stars when it eventually comes to re-signing them, after seeing what has transpired with the Flames this summer.