[News] Tkachuk notifies Flames he won't sign long term (The Athletic)

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

If Tkachuk's list of teams is very small and we aren't going to get a good return just bury him on the 4th line and screw him over for UFA

As long as there are at least 2 teams bidding that he's willing to go to, it shouldn't hurt the return.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Bonded

What are you expecting?

I posted already what I think might be realistic

Bratt, Holtz and maybe a 2nd or 1st
Kyrou, Neighbors and maybe a 2nd or 1st

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Redlan

Many teams sit players and it is not out of spite. You sit him because injury could lower your return (or prevent a trade altogether), because of the negative locker room presence or influence in the lock room on other players, because his production could fall (especially without one of the best playmakers just signed elsewhere) thereby lowering your return. You can simply sit him to show that, as an organization that you are going to do what is best for the team and will play the players who want to play for the team. Trevor Linden said it best” my dream is to play in the NHL, not sign an NHL contract .” Pay and play those guys!

Name a star player who was sat for a long period of time to get him to "play ball".

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I posted already what I think might be realistic

Bratt, Holtz and maybe a 2nd or 1st
Kyrou, Neighbors and maybe a 2nd or 1st

Oh yeah, I'd be good with either of those. I think that is about top end of what the Flames will get. I didn't there were people thinking it would be much better than that.

[dino7c]

Flames are also gaining cap space in most of these proposals

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Name a star player who was sat for a long period of time to get him to "play ball".

Keith Tkachuk!

[driveway]

I'd ask for the following basic package, with examples from the Devils & Blues.

Very good young player (Bratt/Kyrou)
Highly-regarded prospect (Holtz/Neighbors)
2023 Unprotected 1st
Cap-dump player (Severson/Scandella)
Lesser Prospect or 2023 3rd (Walsh/Tucker)

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I posted already what I think might be realistic

Bratt, Holtz and maybe a 2nd or 1st
Kyrou, Neighbors and maybe a 2nd or 1st

Yeah, I think the market value is set.

It's the equivalent to: 1st rounder + 1st rounder + 1st rounder + 2nd rounder

That's Tuch + Krebs + 1st + 2nd.

I don't think everyone is out of touch with their proposals in here, but I do think some of us haven't looked at the fit for the other team. It's why I don't think Mercer will be part of this, and honestly I'd be a bit surprised if St. Louis is the end destination because it seems like Kyrou is part of their next wave in St. Louis already.

I think it will be NJD, and I think it will be Holtz + 1st + ? + ?

Nolan Foote could be one of those question marks, and I wouldn't be surprised to see one of their young defensive prospects be the other (not Nemec though)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Keith Tkachuk!

I hope Matt has his metabolism

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I think the market value is set.

It's the equivalent to: 1st rounder + 1st rounder + 1st rounder + 2nd rounder

That's Tuch + Krebs + 1st + 2nd.

I don't think everyone is out of touch with their proposals in here, but I do think some of us haven't looked at the fit for the other team. It's why I don't think Mercer will be part of this, and honestly I'd be a bit surprised if St. Louis is the end destination because it seems like Kyrou is part of their next wave in St. Louis already.

I think it will be NJD, and I think it will be Holtz + 1st + ? + ?

Nolan Foote could be one of those question marks, and I wouldn't be surprised to see one of their young defensive prospects be the other (not Nemec though)

Blues want Tkachuk for not just the player but for marketing purposes...and they have one shot at it.

He signs for 8 elsewhere and they can kiss his prime goodbye

[bluejays]

I hope BT takes the package with the highest possible draft pick chance. Having said that, I do wonder if Pittsburgh goes all in to help Crosby and try to get a legit top line guy. Mr. Truculence would love to help his team out and throw his old buddy a bone. I personally think the Pittsburgh team as a whole isn’t good, but if Burke would offer Kapanen, 2 1sts, and a 2nd round pick this year, I’d be tempted.

[Bonded]

I am all aboard the New Jersey train. Best mix of prospects and cap. St Louis will probably only take him if it is a crappy return unless they cough up Kyrou.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by fleury

I hope BT takes the package with the highest possible draft pick chance. Having said that, I do wonder if Pittsburgh goes all in to help Crosby and try to get a legit top line guy. Mr. Truculence would love to help his team out and throw his old buddy a bone. I personally think the Pittsburgh team as a whole isn’t good, but if Burke would offer Kapanen, 2 1sts, and a 2nd round pick this year, I’d be tempted.

2 low firsts, meh

[Squirrel]

MT to Philly would be great just to see Johnny’s reaction.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames are also gaining cap space in most of these proposals

I think there'd be come cap coming to the Flames, I just don't know who sucks for the Devils and St Louis.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Probably not true but meh if so.

There is no probably, obviously made up

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by fleury

I hope BT takes the package with the highest possible draft pick chance. Having said that, I do wonder if Pittsburgh goes all in to help Crosby and try to get a legit top line guy. Mr. Truculence would love to help his team out and throw his old buddy a bone. I personally think the Pittsburgh team as a whole isn’t good, but if Burke would offer Kapanen, 2 1sts, and a 2nd round pick this year, I’d be tempted.

But why? That's literally just quantity for quality.

Kapanen is a bottom six forward. Their 1sts won't be high ones, and their 2nd is a 2nd.

I'd say better to target a high end prospect + + + rather than a middling player + poor picks.

[MrMike]

Pittsburgh’s picks are going to be early 20s and Kappanen can’t even lock a spot it the top six in Pittsburgh. No thanks.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Seeing Johnny and Tkachuk potentially both go to and extend with basement dwellers just affirms to me that while I'm sure they enjoyed the playoffs, they were never risking their necks to win and probably were never that disappointed outside of missing on individual points/goal markers.

The Devils won’t be bottom-feeders for long. If Tkachuk winds up there, I’d be very surprised if the Flames win more games over the next seven seasons than the Devils.

But regardless, contenders rarely have cap space to take on star players. So when stars opt for free agency, they know they’re not going to a top team.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ooohhh do tell who the players are….did you find one solitary example to refute the common assumption that Bratt will never be half the player that Tkachuk will be?

Vanek and Pavelski. 5OA and 7th rd of same draft. It's no surprise that the high pick has a huge head start in production.

I don't want Bratt and am not saying he's the next Pavelski, but he's trending well. 8 mths younger than MT, too. I don't think anyone would be surprised if Tkachuk falls off a bit early like a Vanek or Heatley.

2OA Bobby Ryan did a lot more and sooner than 230OA Hornqvist from the same draft.


3OA Matt Duchene vs. 152OA Anders Lee.
7OA Jeff Skinner vs. 147OA Gallagher

Legwand or Tanguay or Rico Fata vs. Datsyuk.

You could probably find a similar example just about every year. It's just silly to judge career stats of a 6th rd pick vs. a 6OA pick when they are still pretty darn young.

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

Not really sure why Bratt is getting underestimated but Kyrou is getting the opposite

Kyrou was 4th on his team in scoring and his team was pretty good

Bratt led his team in scoring (hughes did get injured and would have) and his team wasn’t very good.

They also had pretty identical ppg in 20-21, and Bratt was putting up good seasons before kyrou was a full timer while they are from the same draft.

Not making an argument for one being better than the other but I don’t see how Bratt is more likely a bust than kyrou

4th on a 109 pt team that had 4 guys score ppg+. Kyrou was 7th in STL F's for TOI.
vs.
Leading a 63pt team in scoring

I just wouldn't draw many conclusions from such vastly different scenarios.