Tank for Bedard

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Poe969

They have a better chance at first overall than they do at winning the cup...or a playoff round...or even making the playoffs. Being a team in the final 4 for the cup gets you nothing, getting a top 4 pick changes your franchise.

You can't be serious...making the playoffs lol

The chances of 1st overall are WAY lower

[flylock shox]

The Flames are in a stellar spot to tank (and not just for Bedard, but for a number of good players in a deep draft).



Tkachuk, Lindholm, and Mangiapane are coming off unbelievable seasons that are unlikely to be repeated. The opportunity to sell high is there for the taking. Markstrom had a great regular season and would generate interest around the league too. So would a few members of the Flames' D-corps.


This is a rare case of a team justifiably (and largely involuntarily) dismantling at a time when it's coming off a lot of success - not just some period where everyone was middling to poor (like the season before this one).



The right moves and the Flames could fully restock the cupboards with high picks (including their own) and good prospects, while at the same time having a bunch of cap space to play with.



If they fail to do it, we'll be back to the middling Flames we're so familiar with - getting by, missing the playoffs by a handful of points, drafting in the teens, rinse, repeat.



I think it's the only logical option at this stage.

[FlamesAddiction]

It really depends. If playoffs Markstrom becomes regular season Markstorm, we should have the best first overall odds.

[GGG]

I was really hoping that they could have signed Johnny and Matt long term so we would have had 4 good years of playoff hockey. But since that didn’t happen and you lost 1/4 of your offense and half of that for nothing rebuilding has been forced upon you.

Any player who will no longer be a contributor 4 years from now should be traded away for players who fit the revised timelines.

If we do that we will be naturally bad enough we don’t have to tank.

Hanafin, Lindholm, Tanev, backlund, Markstrom etc.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

I was really hoping that they could have signed Johnny and Matt long term so we would have had 4 good years of playoff hockey. But since that didn’t happen and you lost 1/4 of your offense and half of that for nothing rebuilding has been forced upon you.

Any player who will no longer be a contributor 4 years from now should be traded away for players who fit the revised timelines.

If we do that we will be naturally bad enough we don’t have to tank.

Hanafin, Lindholm, Tanev, backlund, Markstrom etc.

4 years is a pretty good timeline to decide who to get rid of.

Keep Andersson, Kylington, and possibly Hanifin. In four years these guys may develop into a legit powerhouse unit.

Move almost everyone else on the roster.

[Burn13]

Bend hard for Bedard.

[simonsays]

Team burn it down.

Posted this in the trade rumors talk but it's also valid here.



I spent a little time scrolling capfriendly to look for overpaid players on various teams and I came up with a small list of people we could trade Lindholm for, with the assumption that we would also be getting some pretty good picks / prospects.


The idea was similar contracts, less production for picks & or prospects involved. Not a thorough list but a starting point if we are to consider trading players for downgrades / picks. While I'd like to see a tear down I realize that up and coming players are going to have to learn from established players in the first few years. So getting players back, even if they are considerably worse is something that I value in trades.



Elias Lindholm 27yrs, 2 until UFA 4.85:



Mantha (Wsh). 27yrs 2yrs 5.7m. Injuries have taken their toll and even while healthy he doesn't produce enough to justify his contract. I think we could get a 1st + 2nd maybe + for Lindholm, plus the return when we flip him at his UFA trade deadline. Washington gets a center who can help them through their injury woes and a far better fwd who saves them almost a mil.



Nyquist (Cbj) 5.5m 1yr. Decent 50pt winger, decent 2 way but nothing remarkable. Saves cbj 750k, gives them better options through out their top 6 if they trade for Lindholm. No idea what they'd consider adding to such a trade, but has immediate chemistry w/ the new guy. They may need their pieces to open up more cap space for Laine.



Olofsson (buf) 4.75, 2 yrs. No where near a good a Lindy, similar contract. I don't know what Buffalo is trying to do right now, but they would def. need to add + to this to make it worthwhile.



Sam Reinhart (Fla) 6.5, 2 yrs. He actually had a great season last year and they may be loathe to move him. But with 1.7m in cap savings and a better 2 way player in the mix they might consider it. Probably not much in draft or prospect extras if we made this trade.


Mike Hoffman (Mtl) 4.5, 2yr. Scoring winger who does little else. Not even that good at scoring recently. Montreal would have to include a big add for any trade to work, as Lindholm would give them a better scorer, better 2 way player and let them out of a pretty bad contract.



I think these are the type of trades we should be looking at. Because every good team is at the cap or + Treleving should be hunting for better-than types. Where we give the better player at the better contract and get ++ in return. And then have the ability to trade that (ok) player at the deadline of their UFA year.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by simonsays

Olofsson (buf) 4.75, 2 yrs. No where near a good a Lindy, similar contract. I don't know what Buffalo is trying to do right now, but they would def. need to add + to this to make it worthwhile.

Some of these are good ideas. Olofsson just re-signed with Buffalo, so I doubt they regret it yet

[Jason14h]

MT and Lindy Columbus for their next 3 1sts and all their prospects and cap
Dumps

[Eb0la11]

Should we change thread name to “Fail Hard for Bedard”?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Montreal also had fewer wins than Calgary who missed the playoffs

Yeah point is they are about the same caliber team with a struggling Johnny and Tkachuk

Now without them, the Flames are right in it . Of course, with a good return for Tkachuk and another career year from Markstrom, Andersson and Hanifin, they may still be competitive but I wouldn’t bet on it

[CroFlames]

I used to think it was embarrassing to tank. But the way the league and draft are set up, there is incentive to tank if you don't see yourself as a contender. Why chase 8th, get bounced and draft 16-20?


Do any of you see the Flames as contenders without Johnny and Tkachuk?



If we aren't contenders, then be ruthless with assets and returns. Load up on firsts for the upcoming draft, and not washed up UFAs in an effort to get 2-3 home playoff games in 2023.



Do it right, and lets become the next Tampa, Pittsburgh or Washington.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think there is pretty universal acceptance that a re-build would be a good idea.
The question is more if ownership will sign off on that.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The question is more if ownership will sign off on that.

I almost feel like Tkachuk and Gaudreau may have done us a favour on that front

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think there is pretty universal acceptance that a re-build would be a good idea.
The question is more if ownership will sign off on that.

They should imo. There'd likely be more excitement from the fans for a rebuilding team, than a grind it out team finishing 7-12 with no offensive stars.

The rebuild has the potential to be very quick too, as they could get 4+ firsts this year.

[CroFlames]

I enjoyed the rebuild in the 2010s. It was exciting to see the young players come in and see what they could do and what direction the team would take. How big of a beauty was Monahan?



2008-2012 or whatever those years were with a veteran group but missing playoffs was just freaking awful.



I'm ready for a few playoff-less years if we rebuild around solid Cs instead of LW or RWs.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by blankall

They should imo. There'd likely be more excitement from the fans for a rebuilding team, than a grind it out team finishing 7-12 with no offensive stars.

The rebuild has the potential to be very quick too, as they could get 4+ firsts this year.

I think there is a difference between what hard core fans on here will tolerate v. the broader base.
Re-builds are hard and difficult to predict. How will fans feel if it takes 5+ years to be back in the playoffs.
There is an impact to fan interest and attendance that is a factor. Just because all of us on here are OK with it doesn't mean the broader fan base (including season ticket holders) is. The might be at first, but in years 6 and 7 it gets hard.

I think if the do a re-build it will be a long one because the organization lacks both assets and high end talent. So I don't think it's a quick one unless they lucked into a Bedard. It would take 5-8 years.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I enjoyed the rebuild in the 2010s. It was exciting to see the young players come in and see what they could do and what direction the team would take. How big of a beauty was Monahan?



2008-2012 or whatever those years were with a veteran group but missing playoffs was just freaking awful.



I'm ready for a few playoff-less years if we rebuild around solid Cs instead of LW or RWs.

Yes my engagement was much higher when the Flames were a young team on the up ~2015 than the horrible veteran years before that, or the capped out Gaudreau-Tkachuk years after (apart from the Sutter magic).

Agree completely with being even more excited if we can nab some Cs to build around for once in my lifetime.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think there is a difference between what hard core fans on here will tolerate v. the broader base.
Re-builds are hard and difficult to predict. How will fans feel if it takes 5+ years to be back in the playoffs.
There is an impact to fan interest and attendance that is a factor. Just because all of us on here are OK with it doesn't mean the broader fan base (including season ticket holders) is. The might be at first, but in years 6 and 7 it gets hard.

I think if the do a re-build it will be a long one because the organization lacks both assets and high end talent. So I don't think it's a quick one unless they lucked into a Bedard. It would take 5-8 years.

I don't think that's true. The team has many players on short term value contracts that would be highly appealing to a contender, especially if they use their new-found cap space to maximize returns. Guys like Hanifin, Lindholm, Markstrom, Tanev might be at the peak of their career values.

[CroFlames]

If we do rebuild, I think I'd want to keep Tanev around to teach young players how to play the right way.

[Aarongavey]

If the Florida Marlins can go from winning the World Series to finishing 54-108 the next season, surly a team that got to the second round can do it if they want to. Taking like that was brutal for the Marlins though, they had to wait an additional 4 seasons before they won the World Series again.