Tank for Bedard

[kukkudo]

I am on the rebuild train.


2023 draft is stupid deep, Flames have players that can bring in first and second picks in a deep draft. Tre needs to stock pile on picks for next years draft!

[Hackey]

I don't get why there is such a reluctance to tear it down and rebuild. Posters will say there is no guarantee. They're right. But statistically, your odds are far greater than plugging away and drafting in the teens every year.

If drafting top 5 gives you even a 25% chance of finding a franchise player, I'll take those odds way over drafting in the teens and having a 1% chance.

Having a team loaded with prospects and potential would be way more exciting as a fan than watching the remnants of this iteration of the Flames be a bubble team for the next 5 years.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I also think that the first rebuild didn't work out as we hoped because Feaster flubbed it (and obviously further mistakes were made - Neal, Brouwer, Hamonic, etc).

1- Season before he throws away Regehr for nothing in an effort to create cap space

2- Iginla for a 1st, Agostino and Hanowski (2 prospects that weren't even in the top 10 for Pittsburgh!). The Boston deal that everyone cries about still was even worse in hindsight IMO - 1st (was later since they won the cup, though I bet Klimchuk would have been the pick regardless), Khokhlachev (who never made the NHL, even though he made quite the scene) and Bartkowski who the Flames eventually got later one anyway, and was terrible.

3- Bouwmeester for a 1st (Poirier - who was a great pick, but bad luck there), Cundari (again, not a notable prospect) and Berra (not a notable prospect, but Burke flipped him for a 2nd (yay!) and picked Hunter Smith with it (no!!)).

3 high valued assets were out the door, and in the end, Flames got ZERO out of it.

Flames have had 3 fairly large assets leave for free so far for various reasons - Brodie, Giordano and Gaudreau. Tkachuk will not be following suit at least, and I trust Treliving WAY more to get a solid return for Tkachuk than i did Feaster. Treliving will get value here.

If the Flames retool, I think Treliving will again get value on Toffoli, Tanev, Coleman, Zadorov? (I would be nice if I am him and offer him a choice of where to go simply because he re-signed thinking this team wouldn't rebuild), and whomever else. Let Backlund decide his fate as the longest tenured Flame - he can help with the heavy lifting so you don't throw your young players to the wolves like the Oilers do. Markstrom is the funny choice - how much do you think Toronto wishes they had him right now? They are gambling on 2 goalies I don't think have it, but they think they are contenders? Goalie carousel is over, so I don't know - deadline maybe? I believe he has a NTC anyway and controls his own fate.

I can see the Flames legitimately having a 1-2 year retool and building back up with what's in the pipeline, how good this draft is, and how old some of the players on the team are. Keep Lindholm, Mangiapane, Hanifin, Andersson even Kylington (I don't think he is going to be worth much right now anyway). You have Mackey and Valimaki still with pro experience and upside, and Poirier looking like a high-impact player. Pelletier is looking good, and Ruzicka looks decent so far in the NHL. This is a much better start than the 2013 rebuild.

And yes, I know I wrote a long post on the Treliving Must Go thread, but I have to say:

Treliving >>>>>> Feaster

This organization is a really good drafting and development organization. Focus on the strengths of this organization. That's what I think the Flames should concentrate on for the next season at least- two preferably.

[GreenLantern2814]

All in with Johnny, Lindholm and Tkachuk? Of course.

All in with Tkachuk and Lindholm? Not as obvious, but also not an impossibly bad idea.

All in with no Johnny, no Tkachuk, just Lindholm? An impossibly bad idea.

[Burning Beard]

I'm not opposed to a rebuild either, but it won't be as quick as people are saying. Ottawa has missed the playoffs for 5 straight seasons and many are still saying they "rushed" the rebuild by going forward with their signings and moves this offseason.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I am on the rebuild train.


2023 draft is stupid deep, Flames have players that can bring in first and second picks in a deep draft. Tre needs to stock pile on picks for next years draft!

I like the idea of stockpiling 3-4 1st rounders in 2023 over just treading water with what they have left.

If they can make it a retool by bringing back/in young NHLers then so be it. But if you can't accomplish that then just sell off. There's no point!

Lindholm would be one of the most valuable trade chips seen in quite some time. 2 years left so sell while the value is sky high.

Could be talking multiple firsts for him or a 1st and a blue chip player.

[djsFlames]

If 2023 is like a present day 2003 draft then you could be looking at drafting multiple impact NHLers.

I'm not a rebuild guy traditionally. Never been. But it just makes too much sense this year. Any other year and I'd be clamoring for a quick retool.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If drafting top 5 gives you even a 25% chance of finding a franchise player, I'll take those odds way over drafting in the teens and having a 1% chance.

There will be a LOT of tanking teams this upcoming season. Getting a top 5 pick is a longshot. And then the odds are not in favor of that pick becoming a franchise player. So you're basically talking about liquidating the roster, plummeting attendance numbers, taking significant financial losses, and sucking for multiple years for maybe a 5-10% chance of landing a franchise player.

For the record I'm not against the idea of going into a rebuild per se, it's just that I don't see this ownership having any willingness to go down that road.

[CliffFletcher]

It’s funny, but the deficiencies that held this team back for years were coaching and goaltending. Now we have them, it means tanking won’t work.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It’s funny, but the deficiencies that held this team back for years were coaching and goaltending. Now we have them, it means tanking won’t work.

Need to inconspicuously leave banana peels in front of Marky's stall.

[Hackey]

Would Markstrom even want to stay if they decided to tear it down? I'm sure he would be open to a trade. If the Flames weren't so slow to react the Oilers probably would have been a perfect fit. Maybe the Devils want a goalie.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

There will be a LOT of tanking teams this upcoming season. Getting a top 5 pick is a longshot. And then the odds are not in favor of that pick becoming a franchise player. So you're basically talking about liquidating the roster, plummeting attendance numbers, taking significant financial losses, and sucking for multiple years for maybe a 5-10% chance of landing a franchise player.

For the record I'm not against the idea of going into a rebuild per se, it's just that I don't see this ownership having any willingness to go down that road.

It is not as big of a long shot as you think
Montreal went from a finalist to 1st overall
The Flames was a lottery team with a struggling Johnny and struggling Tkachuk
The Flames can be in deep lottery without Johnny and Tkachuk and probably an injured Tanev as well

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Would Markstrom even want to stay if they decided to tear it down? I'm sure he would be open to a trade. If the Flames weren't so slow to react the Oilers probably would have been a perfect fit. Maybe the Devils want a goalie.

Oo another 1st.

We're just preparing for the Wolf now anyways.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Need to inconspicuously leave banana peels in front of Marky's stall.

If anything, Markstrom showed in the Oilers series he can be a capable tank commander if needed

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

If anything, Markstrom showed in the Oilers series he can be a capable tank commander if needed

Yes, the Vezina finalist who had one bad series will surely play poorly enough all season for the team to tank.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Yes, the Vezina finalist who had one bad series will surely play poorly enough all season for the team to tank.

Goaltending is very much a team game. Look at Markstrom the year before.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Goaltending is very much a team game. Look at Markstrom the year before.

Okay, after what you saw from Markstrom last season with the Flames defense and coaching you think it's possible for him to all of a sudden play poorly enough over 82 games for this team to tank? The guy had one bad playoff series and was great the other series and 82 games. He's an elite goalie.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It is not as big of a long shot as you think
Montreal went from a finalist to 1st overall
The Flames was a lottery team with a struggling Johnny and struggling Tkachuk
The Flames can be in deep lottery without Johnny and Tkachuk and probably an injured Tanev as well

The Montreal cup run was a lightning in a bottle run orchestrated by the best goalie in the game, who was then hurt and unavailable for the following season, and they lost a whole bunch of other key players on top of that.

As mentioned before, this will be a year where more teams than usual will be tanking due to the deep draft.

[Poe969]

They have a better chance at first overall than they do at winning the cup...or a playoff round...or even making the playoffs. Being a team in the final 4 for the cup gets you nothing, getting a top 4 pick changes your franchise.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It is not as big of a long shot as you think
Montreal went from a finalist to 1st overall
The Flames was a lottery team with a struggling Johnny and struggling Tkachuk
The Flames can be in deep lottery without Johnny and Tkachuk and probably an injured Tanev as well

Montreal also had fewer wins than Calgary who missed the playoffs