To Calgary | By Johnny Gaudreau

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

People make it sound like he had an obligation to sign with the Flames, or that he was still under contract and reneged and demanded a trade. He left as a UFA, it's his right to choose where he wanted to play. If he wanted to take less money to be in his own country and closer to home, it's well within his rights to do so.

No one is talking about rights. They are talking about good faith bargaining. He made a demand, had it met, and then said no. When it was too late to do anything. People can be mad about that.

I don't think he had any intention of taking a smaller contract, except for the extra year. He admits he was surprised at the lack of interest. Which maybe should give Flames fans some comfort.

[FanIn80]

I mean, he does have a 4-year communications degree from Boston College. It's not like the guy is incapable of writing a letter.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Definitely not.

Based on my experience, a significant proportion of senior staff (most with MBAs or MPAs) would struggle to write a letter that consistent and coherent.

I have seen college application essays that are more complicated

[Manhattanboy]

If true, the fact that Calgary agreed to his demands followed by his camp going silent for several hours while the Flames were ready to ink the deal and make the announcement shows extreme bad faith.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

People make it sound like he had an obligation to sign with the Flames, or that he was still under contract and reneged and demanded a trade. He left as a UFA, it's his right to choose where he wanted to play. If he wanted to take less money to be in his own country and closer to home, it's well within his rights to do so.

nobody disputes that. It's more the leaving it to the last minute thing that has disappointed people, especially if he indeed walked despite the Flames giving in to his demands.

there was a way for Gaudreau to handle this in a classy way. If you come out at some point between the end of the season and the final week before free agency and explain publicly that you do love the city, but have decided to put family first and leave, then reactions are different. That gives the team time to adjust and plan ahead, that gives yourself time to prepare for free agency and that probably leads to a much, much more admirable reaction from the fanbase. Instead it all was, in John's own words, "messy". And it's totally fair for fans to be bitter about that, even if they understand his reasons.

[Lonestar]

Are we really bitching about how the message was delivered after bitching that there should be a message delivered?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Definitely not.

Based on my experience, a significant proportion of senior staff (most with MBAs or MPAs) would struggle to write a letter that consistent and coherent.

To me it's not the coherency. It's just the voice. When I write a letter, it sounds like me. And that's the same when I see others write letters. This just doesn't. Again, that doesn't make it dishonest. The ideas and story is likely all his. It's just been essentially reworded IMO. It may have been edited by his agent to remove any confidential stuff, anything that could be taken badly, etc. All normal stuff.

Pretty much everything in that magazine is like that. Read stuff by HS grads who passed while in junior, or Euros who struggle with English. They all sound kinda the same.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I didn’t accept the offer and didn’t show up

But yeah I told them my salary requirement and still rejected their offers. That’s normal man

This is getting hilarious. So in other words, each of Johnny (you) and Brad (your potential employer) acted reasonably and didn't make any mistakes in either knowing the other party or knowing the risks.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You never know. Just 4 years ago Buffalo had ROR/Eichel/Reinhart with Mittelstadt looking really good. Hell, Calgary had Monahan/Bennett/Backlund/Lindholm/Jankowski/Dube as centre/possible centre. Things sometimes don't work out like you think. Johnson and Sillinger are still unproven.

For sure, but there's more runway there. Jenner and Roslovic are solid guys to ease the transition, too.

Lindholm is only guaranteed at a nice number for 2 more years. Same term for Backlund, and Monny is a major question mark.

Originally Posted by dustygoon

You mean last summer, they were going to buy a house and settle in Calgary as a childless couple, but then they suddenly decided they will have a child so that changed? That doesn't sound right.

As a recent parent, I can say that my priorities changed massively during pregnancy, and then even more with the baby.

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Somewhere in an alternate universe Johnny signed last summer 8 x $9 million AAV and the Flames got one hell of a bargain by taking a gamble on the player.

It's a lot harder to hit the gym at 6am when you're sleeping on million count sheets. Who knows if he'd have elevated like this without a lingering contract.

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The fact that he even thought about re-signing a 7 year deal after he turned down that 8 year deal tells me how much he wanted to come back and how little money ultimately mattered in his decision.

I'm a broken record, but the 7 year deal reports are a huge undercut to the ultimatum/reneg rumours.

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

This.

Put on your big boy pants and suck it up. Life is full of sacrifices and not being around family is a reality for a large portion of the population.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Or...just do what's best for you and your family (even if you take longer than people like to make the decision)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

Are we really bitching about how the message was delivered after bitching that there should be a message delivered?

No - I just mentioned it wasn't in his own words and some people took offence for some reason. To the extent some people say "he sounds sincere" I suppose it's relevant, not really otherwise.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Somewhere in an alternate universe Johnny signed last summer 8 x $9 million AAV and the Flames got one hell of a bargain by taking a gamble on the player.

Yep, that’s the number I thought would get it done last offseason. Would love to know what management was offering at the time. There’s no doubt in my mind it was a low ball offer, which is understandable given the lackluster performance. But Treliving would most definitely be kicking himself right now if it that was the case.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yes, he was around .85 PPG over the two previous seasons. Not terrible. Not 115 points good. Not 10.5 good. Which I'd lay even money on he will never approach again. Even other teams in a bidding war didn't give him 10.5.

Your example is flawed of course, since you are talking about a two-way player. Which Gaudreau was not accused of being in July 2021 (which he also turned around).

Your problem is you have magic GM thinking. Like Lou L would have seen the future and given Johnny Gaudreau $11M.

Nobody ever accused Neal or Brouwer of being two way players. Coleman is a two way player, which is why I did not include him. Brad backed up the brinks truck for mediocre 40 point guys when he signed Brouwer and Neal. I am saying that I would have been totally comfortable with Brad doing the same for Johnny.

For Neal and Brouwer, Brad doled out about 1.2% of the cap value for every 0.1 PPG that they had prior to signing the contract. The ratio is almost the same for both players. If he had done that for a player who had 0.88 PPG in 20/21 he would have had about 10.7% of the cap as his Gaudreau number, conveniently right in the 10-11 percent range that I think should have been his negotiating range.

If you took the PPG player from the previous 3 years, that would have been 12% of the cap (1.2% for every 0.1 PPG)

You make it seem like it was a crazy risk to sign a guy for his 29-36 year old years to a similar or lower percentage of the cap relative to production before the signing of the contract than two previous signings Brad did for guys for their 31-35 year old years and their 31-34 year old years.

I have long been on the record as saying I think the Flames should get a new GM. Regardless of whether the owners say win now, Brad burns through picks at a rate almost unseen in NHL history and definitely at a much higher rate than any previous Flames GM. Messing up Gaudreau is not even the reason I would like a new GM.

And my post said I would have offered 8-9 million. Anywhere in there I would have been comfortable. Not 11 Million. But you knew that.

[direwolf]

"Not every player was a five-six, 130-pound USHLer when one of the NHL’s most storied franchises took a chance on him. "


I've been a Flames fan my entire life and I'll love this team until the day I die. But storied franchise? Lol. Sure, ok. Full marks to Team Gaudreau for trying to butter us up with a flowery sentence like that though. That's good stuff.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

This is getting hilarious. So in other words, each of Johnny (you) and Brad (your potential employer) acted reasonably and didn't make any mistakes in either knowing the other party or knowing the risks.

What is so hilarious? It’s part of the hiring process. I can’t assume they would hire me or they can’t assume I would accept their offer until we have an accepted offer signed by me.

I don’t think it’s bad faith even if they offered everything I wanted. I may have better offer or my current employer may talk me out of it or maybe I chickened out last minute because I felt uncomfortable.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Nobody ever accused Neal or Brouwer of being two way players. Coleman is a two way player, which is why I did not include him. Brad backed up the brinks truck for mediocre 40 point guys when he signed Brouwer and Neal. I am saying that I would have been totally comfortable with Brad doing the same for Johnny.

For Neal and Brouwer, Brad doled out about 1.2% of the cap value for every 0.1 PPG that they had prior to signing the contract. The ratio is almost the same for both players. If he had done that for a player who had 0.88 PPG in 20/21 he would have had about 10.7% of the cap as his Gaudreau number, conveniently right in the 10-11 percent range that I think should have been his negotiating range.

If you took the PPG player from the previous 3 years, that would have been 12% of the cap (1.2% for every 0.1 PPG)

You make it seem like it was a crazy risk to sign a guy for his 29-36 year old years to a similar or lower percentage of the cap relative to production before the signing of the contract than two previous signings Brad did for guys for their 31-35 year old years and their 31-34 year old years.

I have long been on the record as saying I think the Flames should get a new GM. Regardless of whether the owners say win now, Brad burns through picks at a rate almost unseen in NHL history and definitely at a much higher rate than any previous Flames GM. Messing up Gaudreau is not even the reason I would like a new GM.

And my post said I would have offered 8-9 million. Anywhere in there I would have been comfortable. Not 11 Million. But you knew that.

They supposedly offered 8. As a starting position. Gaudreau decided to sit it out.

I actually thought you were talking Coleman. If you were talking Neal, sure. Who doesn't think that was a mistake (not an overpayment though if he'd panned out to his normal production). Put another way, maybe in searching for examples of overpayment, let's not go back to 5 off seasons ago.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

Are we really bitching about how the message was delivered after bitching that there should be a message delivered?

This was an inevitability. You’ll never please everybody when people invariably just want to be outraged. People will still boo which I can understand, but these same people better understand that Johnny was no Adam Fox. He actually signed here against all odds and gave us 8+ years of service, countless highlights and the franchise’s most important goal since 2004.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Did you say "I will work for you at $x" and they offered you $x and you then said no? And did they miss a deadline to mitigate the loss of your services, or were there a bunch of other equal candidates they could just slot in?

Based on one 3rd hand account (at best) which doesn't get anywhere close to specifying the nature of the supposed ultimatum - which also [allegedly] came roughly 12 hrs before the deadline (not really time to mitigate either way)...


Why are reporters refusing to report that and instead just hedging with innuendo?

If Johnny was so unethical, why did the Flames try to do business with him again just 14-20 hrs after his [alleged] dastardly reneg?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Nobody ever accused Neal or Brouwer of being two way players. Coleman is a two way player, which is why I did not include him. Brad backed up the brinks truck for mediocre 40 point guys when he signed Brouwer and Neal. I am saying that I would have been totally comfortable with Brad doing the same for Johnny.

For Neal and Brouwer, Brad doled out about 1.2% of the cap value for every 0.1 PPG that they had prior to signing the contract. The ratio is almost the same for both players. If he had done that for a player who had 0.88 PPG in 20/21 he would have had about 10.7% of the cap as his Gaudreau number, conveniently right in the 10-11 percent range that I think should have been his negotiating range.

If you took the PPG player from the previous 3 years, that would have been 12% of the cap (1.2% for every 0.1 PPG)

You make it seem like it was a crazy risk to sign a guy for his 29-36 year old years to a similar or lower percentage of the cap relative to production before the signing of the contract than two previous signings Brad did for guys for their 31-35 year old years and their 31-34 year old years.

I have long been on the record as saying I think the Flames should get a new GM. Regardless of whether the owners say win now, Brad burns through picks at a rate almost unseen in NHL history and definitely at a much higher rate than any previous Flames GM. Messing up Gaudreau is not even the reason I would like a new GM.

And my post said I would have offered 8-9 million. Anywhere in there I would have been comfortable. Not 11 Million. But you knew that.

Yeah we don't know what the asks or offers were last year...but Flames should have been comfortable with $8M-$9M last year.

It's easy to get caught up in the negotiations in the moment but really anything above $9.5M for 8 years for a 29 year old winger was a pretty big overpayment.

Look at Gaudreau's 82 point pace season by season for his career

14/15: 65
15/16: 81
16-17: 70
17-18: 86
18-19: 99
19-20: 68
20-21: 72
21-22: 115
Career: 83 points per 82 games. (This was 79 points per 82 before his career year last year).

So really this season was a big outlier to be honest, and if you give him $10.5M you are paying for what was an outlier season.

Looking at his career as a whole Gaudreau is likely more of a guy that's 75 points in a bad year, and more realistically 95 points in a good year.

So depending on the ask last year it really does feel like the Flames should have been willing to lock up Gaudreau for around $8M per season in the 2021 offseason.

However we don't know what the asks were. Maybe Flames did offer $8M and Gaudreau wanted $9.5M last year, and I could see why the Flames wouldn't have wanted to do that.

In hindsight it does feel like a miss but things are always easier with the benefit of hindsight.

[Lonestar]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No - I just mentioned it wasn't in his own words and some people took offence for some reason. To the extent some people say "he sounds sincere" I suppose it's relevant, not really otherwise.

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically, just skimmed through talks of ghost-writers and not being genuine. That's how these things work, they have teams of people surrounding them both personally and from the team to help get the message out as he would like. Look how badly his introductory press conference went in Columbus. He was clearly unprepared and uncomfortable.

Whether he wrote it himself or not doesn't merit questioning his education or intelligence level.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

What is so hilarious? It’s part of the hiring process. I can’t assume they would hire me or they can’t assume I would accept their offer until we have an accepted offer signed by me.

I don’t think it’s bad faith even if they offered everything I wanted. I may have better offer or my current employer may talk me out of it or maybe I chickened out last minute because I felt uncomfortable.

You are leaving out that he was the one who asked for the number. And making up reasons that didn't exist (like a better offer). So in your example:

Employer: So how much do you want to work for us?
You: 100K/year
Employer: OK, we'll give you that.
You: Nah.

Somehow in your world this is the employer not knowing you were going to turn them down.