Brad Treliving needs to go

[Hockey_Ninja]

I think he’s on his last legs now. It was honestly a long time coming. I think Brad is a high quality professional and he has done great things for the franchise. But he’s definitely made crucial mistakes that ended up hurting the team in the long run

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I thought the compete and effort was better this playoffs.
The 2nd round blew up because they had no answer for McDavid and Leon including in net.

I felt they competed relatively hard against Dallas two years ago too until maybe the very end.

I just don't know that this core of forwards has (had?) what it takes to create offense in the playoffs. Was it Descartes that said the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and expecting a different result?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by fleury

Core players were the same. Sure the third and fourth line and all the d was different, but when your core wasn’t there night in and out and can’t break through bigger d, or they’re not speedy enough as an identity in a league where speed is necessary, I’d say it was a likely outcome. The goaltending falling apart came out of nowhere for sure.

Not sure that's fair.

The top line had a different player, new goaltender, completely new defense core, different secondary players other than Backlund, different coach.

It's day most was different.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I felt they competed relatively hard against Dallas two years ago too until maybe the very end.

I just don't know that this core of forwards has (had?) what it takes to create offense in the playoffs. Was it Descartes that said the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and expecting a different result?

I think BT still thought highly of the core but instead decided he could offset any deficiencies by bringing in better secondary and tertiary pieces. But the fact was when you’re competing in your own division against the best I’m the world with McDavid, Daisaitl, Mackinnon, and Makar, they’re nowhere near it. For them to go in with that mindset they can overcome it through a Kessel signing or something really misses the point that the core isn’t fast enough and can’t create their own plays as efficiently as they need. Their only hope IMO if they wanted to not go the rebuilding route, would be to try the St. Louis approach from when they won it and try and get four relatively equal lines to roll. But to do that in one off-season with a good draft coming up would completely miss an opportunity to do a rebuild the right way.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure that's fair.

The top line had a different player, new goaltender, completely new defense core, different secondary players other than Backlund, different coach.

It's day most was different.

Agree to disagree respectfully. When you rely on your core forwards to score (which they did in the regular season, and Johnny did in the playoffs), you rely on your big guns more in the playoffs. You’re not playing the fourth line as much because you need your big guys to step up. But if defences are tighter, and your guys aren’t skilled or fast enough to create opportunities, you’re in a bad position but ultimately put yourself in that position to rely on those players. Three years now they’ve been badly outplayed in their final series. Some of it was predictable and I’d say a large part of it was on the core capability. Really sucks that Tanev got hurt and Markstrom was the worst possible but the core really didn’t carry things in that last round.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Probably because the chances of you finding someone better are at best equal, if not less than the chances of you finding someone worse.

I think most people would be fine switching him out for someone who seemed like they could be an improvement. Who is that?

Given how middle of the road the Flames have been under Treliving/Edwards, the odds that the next guy is better look to be about close to the next being worse.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that BT did the best given ownership mandates/constraints. New GM or not let's hope there's some kind of external audit/appraisal of the Flames organization after this summer.

I read somewhere that the Flames have the fewest scouts employed, and are among the cheapest in terms of spending on hockey ops. The various corners they've been cutting are starting to show, imo.

[Psytic]

I doubt this is on BT. The owners have always been the "go for it" at all costs type and the GMs have to work within that frame work. Its on the owners that they hung onto these two players as long as they did if they had any inkling that they couldn't sign them imo. We are like one step above Winnipeg and Arizona at this point. We got a crap facility. We got crap Covid rules. There's nothing to do for millionaires. We dont have McD. Its not an easy job. Especially when the owners seem to be never willing to cut bait for asset mgmt purposes and get a return when they can. At least Winnipeg seems to get something decent when ever someone wants to leave.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Bingo

well you don't want an unconfident GM.

I don't see Treliving as having a huge ego.

He's just a thorough guy that digs into everything.

He overpaid on Hamonic but his single biggest mistake was betting on Gaudreau and Monahan to be an elite core.

I agree with this and have been on that wagon for a long time. But I also acknowledge it is the most difficult thing to actually change without doing a full reset.

COL kinda shows that it is possible, but we can probably all agree that transitioning the keys to Landeskog/MacKinnon/Rantanen was probably an easier/safer bet than Lindholm/Bennett/Tkachuk (though I'm definitely still curious how a pivot starting around TDL 2020 might have worked).

The bets were too big too soon for a group that hadn't particularly 'earned' it and we've been left chasing our tail. At least we're not the only ones - IMO OTT has been doing the exact same thing.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Regardless of what anyone on here thinks, the organization obviously believes that losing him is a failure, seeing as how they went balls to the wall to keep him.

It was the team's belief that JG at $10.5 per over 8 years was the right way to go so I get why people are disappointed.

Perhaps true, or they thought keeping him even at a smelly AAV was still the best asset mgmt option (go hard for this 1-2 yr window then possibly trade).

[SportsJunky]

Jeezus, Gaudreau leaves for nothing, Tkachuk quite possibly gone and dark clouds are circling Dube.

How we feeling today, Tree?

[jg13]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Jeezus, Gaudreau leaves for nothing, Tkachuk quite possibly gone and dark clouds are circling Dube.

How we feeling today, Tree?

First i'm hearing anything on this.

[rollie619]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I doubt this is on BT. The owners have always been the "go for it" at all costs type and the GMs have to work within that frame work. Its on the owners that they hung onto these two players as long as they did if they had any inkling that they couldn't sign them imo. We are like one step above Winnipeg and Arizona at this point. We got a crap facility. We got crap Covid rules. There's nothing to do for millionaires. We dont have McD. Its not an easy job. Especially when the owners seem to be never willing to cut bait for asset mgmt purposes and get a return when they can. At least Winnipeg seems to get something decent when ever someone wants to leave.

This and heck we got Markstrom and Tanev for nothing. It works both ways. It just so happens the guy we lost was more significant. (Not as a sum, but as a part)

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And in the long run I'm not sure losing him is worse than signing him to 8*10.5.

So the GM you defend was willing to sign Johnny at 8 years × 10.5 million.
Now you say he was wrong?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Cobra

So the GM you defend was willing to sign Johnny at 8 years × 10.5 million.
Now you say he was wrong?

I'm been consistent that there were 3 outcomes:
1. Trade Johnny
2. Sign him to a deal that may be bad long-term
3. Lose him for nothing

I wish they had done #1. But I don't think that was BT's decision to make. So amongst 2 and 3 which is worse? I don't know. Time will tell.

Unlike you I don't look at these things in such binary right/wrong, good/bad ways.

[jlh2640]

Today with the Tkachuk speculation buzzing. I want Brad gone. This whole scenario is embarrassing and he should be held accountable.

[Strange Brew]

I honestly don’t believe there’s a world where Treliving wanted to trade Gaudreau at different points and ownership told him he couldn’t.

Gaudreau is not a generational talent. 16th highest AAV in the league and unlike everyone else on that list, he just signed a deal as an unrestricted free agent where historically you pay a premium for zero acquisition cost.

Point is, players like that get traded.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jg13

First i'm hearing anything on this.

Read the Hockey Canada sexual assault thread. There is a nice turd for your morning cereal waiting for you there.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Today with the Tkachuk speculation buzzing. I want Brad gone. This whole scenario is embarrassing and he should be held accountable.

Held accountable for what exactly? You're looking for a scapegoat to take out your frustrations with what is happening with the team.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Today with the Tkachuk speculation buzzing. I want Brad gone. This whole scenario is embarrassing and he should be held accountable.

I agree but I also feel kinda bad for how bad his luck has been.

Elliot really started it. A good goalie that fell apart. Then Hamonic, Neal. Drafting Bennett was seen even here as a solid move. Remember pull up gate? Then he shapes up on Panthers.

Anyways, its an incomplete list but dude tries super hard. His luck is so awful its frankly amazing however.

[dissentowner]

I feel bad for Tre, I don't see how any of the things mentioned is on him. Ownership was clearly going to gamble on Gaudreau staying and he said all the right things right up until until the last hours and then stuck a knife in the organizations back. I am not sure how Tkachuk wanting to leave is his fault except for the previous contract walked him to this point. Bringing up the Dube thing is ridiculous, what the hell could he have done about that? It's like the hockey gods ate a giant carton of Ex Lax and then dropped their drawers right over BT's head. What a rough month...

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Today with the Tkachuk speculation buzzing. I want Brad gone. This whole scenario is embarrassing and he should be held accountable.

You want him gone because of a rumor?