Brad Treliving needs to go

[Jore]

Incredible the amount of patience and rope this guy gets for building a team that's 13-26 in the playoffs and 2-10 in the second round over eight years, a team that might see its 2 most valuable players walk for nothing because in part of his contract decisions no less

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I actually agree with the bolded, but exactly 7 days ago many/most people here were on pins and needles hoping he'd continue to build around Gaudreau, and the obnoxious minority are particularly loud about what a failure losing him is.

Regardless of what anyone on here thinks, the organization obviously believes that losing him is a failure, seeing as how they went balls to the wall to keep him.

It was the team's belief that JG at $10.5 per over 8 years was the right way to go so I get why people are disappointed.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Regardless of what anyone on here thinks, the organization obviously believes that losing him is a failure, seeing as how they went balls to the wall to keep him.

It was the team's belief that JG at $10.5 per over 8 years was the right way to go so I get why people are disappointed.

People want to keep Johnny because the other option is to lose him for NOTHING

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You can blame hindsight but hindsight said you were wrong so you were still wrong.

It would be hard for the Flames to justify his existence after this year if they lost their 2 best players and have a bad year

He has a little bit of time to get a good return for Tkachuk and shows the team can still compete but that’s his last shot. IMO of course

Even hindsight doesn't say I'm wrong. It says I'm right. The Flames were drafting forwards. All the forwards are not that good.

Right now, we do need a GM to take command. If Tkachuk walks, the Flames have to commit to a rebuild. The response to the Tkachuk situation will be the bigger test for me. Even then, the GM may have no control. Ownership maybe blocking a rebuild.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

People want to keep Johnny because the other option is to lose him for NOTHING

Well "losing him" is irrelevant by the time we got past the trade deadline. It's all a sunk cost.

At that point, the only decision is whether you want to sign him and for how much. We lost him as much as the Devils or Flyers did.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well "losing him" is irrelevant by the time we got past the trade deadline. It's all a sunk cost.

At that point, the only decision is whether you want to sign him and for how much. We lost him as much as the Devils or Flyers did.

And in the long run I'm not sure losing him is worse than signing him to 8*10.5.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Bingo

well you don't want an unconfident GM.

I don't see Treliving as having a huge ego.

He's just a thorough guy that digs into everything.

He overpaid on Hamonic but his single biggest mistake was betting on Gaudreau and Monahan to be an elite core.

Agreed with respect to GJ and SM. It’s a fair question to ask about evidence on other things that have gone wrong or he overpaid and off the top of my head James Neal and the price paid for assets involving firsts in general were a problem because they handcuffed the team not long after where it prevented the possible pipeline from being better. I was on record to say the price for Toffoli last year was fair in a crappy draft year but it became pretty apparent early on he was a second line talent, and with a mediocre core it wasn’t a good move in hindsight. Hamonic was purely a media driven frenzy at the time. Year after year we see those media hyped guys and it seems like he wants them all. Eg: PLD. I’m not fully against the guy but there seem to me many times he had an overconfident thought that his core could carry them in the playoffs at the expense of picks and it’s never worked out.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And in the long run I'm not sure losing him is worse than signing him to 8*10.5.

Agreed completely there. At $10.5M eventually they’d have to pay a team to take him off the books. Forget that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by fleury

Agreed with respect to GJ and SM. It’s a fair question to ask about evidence on other things that have gone wrong or he overpaid and off the top of my head James Neal and the price paid for assets involving firsts in general were a problem because they handcuffed the team not long after where it prevented the possible pipeline from being better. I was on record to say the price for Toffoli last year was fair in a crappy draft year but it became pretty apparent early on he was a second line talent, and with a mediocre core it wasn’t a good move in hindsight. Hamonic was purely a media driven frenzy at the time. Year after year we see those media hyped guys and it seems like he wants them all. Eg: PLD. I’m not fully against the guy but there seem to me many times he had an overconfident thought that his core could carry them in the playoffs at the expense of picks and it’s never worked out.

Neal on paper was a solid signing. The Flames didn’t do their homework on him as far as off ice goes. I’m kind of amused by the fact you call Toffoli a second line talent. He was acquired to be on the second line.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well "losing him" is irrelevant by the time we got past the trade deadline. It's all a sunk cost.

At that point, the only decision is whether you want to sign him and for how much. We lost him as much as the Devils or Flyers did.

Fine so the failure was earlier to let it get to that point then

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jore

Incredible the amount of patience and rope this guy gets for building a team that's 13-26 in the playoffs and 2-10 in the second round over eight years, a team that might see its 2 most valuable players walk for nothing because in part of his contract decisions no less

Probably because the chances of you finding someone better are at best equal, if not less than the chances of you finding someone worse.

I think most people would be fine switching him out for someone who seemed like they could be an improvement. Who is that?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Neal on paper was a threat sigining. The Flames didn’t do their homework on him as far as off ice goes. I’m kind of amused by the fact you call Toffoli a second line talent. He was acquired to be on the second line.

He totally was. And there were many who thought he was more of a better goal scorer if you read between the lines. But at this point he was just a second line talent. Probably no less. But the question is even in a bad draft year why give up that pick when they weren’t good enough for the playoffs as a playoff team? At the time I admit I fell into the trap of going for it based on the regular season success but when they didn’t have much of a chance giving that pick up wasn’t good at all.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by fleury

He totally was. And there were many who thought he was more of a better goal scorer if you read between the lines. But at this point he was just a second line talent. Probably no less. But the question is even in a bad draft year why give up that pick when they weren’t good enough for the playoffs as a playoff team? At the time I admit I fell into the trap of going for it based on the regular season success but when they didn’t have much of a chance giving that pick up wasn’t good at all.

But how do you predict the team won't have much of a chance in the playoffs?

It's not like every playoff team had our number in the regular season and we were just beating up chumps.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But how do you predict the team won't have much of a chance in the playoffs?

It's not like every playoff team had our number in the regular season and we were just beating up chumps.

Fair question. I thought they’d be better but last couple years’ playoff teams were terrible. Outskated, outhustled, couldn’t score. And nothing changed with the core year to year. So it was predictable to some degree. To the bad and inconsistent degree they played was not really but the signs were there from previous playoff performances with this core.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by fleury

Fair question. I thought they’d be better but last couple years’ playoff teams were terrible. Outskated, outhustled, couldn’t score. And nothing changed with the core year to year. So it was predictable to some degree. To the bad and inconsistent degree they played was not really but the signs were there from previous playoff performances with this core.

I thought the compete and effort was better this playoffs.
The 2nd round blew up because they had no answer for McDavid and Leon including in net.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by fleury

Fair question. I thought they’d be better but last couple years’ playoff teams were terrible. Outskated, outhustled, couldn’t score. And nothing changed with the core year to year. So it was predictable to some degree. To the bad and inconsistent degree they played was not really but the signs were there from previous playoff performances with this core.

New coach, new goaltender, mostly new defensive corps, new support pieces.

The team was substantially different that the last time they were in the playoffs. How would anyone predict they'd play the same?

[Erick Estrada]

Brad can do a lot to help his cause if he can get a very good return for Tkachuk in the coming week or so.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

New coach, new goaltender, mostly new defensive corps, new support pieces.

The team was substantially different that the last time they were in the playoffs. How would anyone predict they'd play the same?

Same drink stirrers.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I thought the compete and effort was better this playoffs.
The 2nd round blew up because they had no answer for McDavid and Leon including in net.

I think it was highly inconsistent. There were a couple games against Dallas where it was all outside shots. And against Edmonton was definitely no answer for McD, but just as much how they gave up on plays. Your best have to be consistent. And I didn’t see it from Tkachuk in particular. He’s the core and the core isn’t good enough.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

New coach, new goaltender, mostly new defensive corps, new support pieces.

The team was substantially different that the last time they were in the playoffs. How would anyone predict they'd play the same?

Core players were the same. Sure the third and fourth line and all the d was different, but when your core wasn’t there night in and out and can’t break through bigger d, or they’re not speedy enough as an identity in a league where speed is necessary, I’d say it was a likely outcome. The goaltending falling apart came out of nowhere for sure.