[News] UPD: Tkachuk arbitration hearing set for Aug 11

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Imagine your seventeen year old daughter wants to get a job flipping burgers, but in order to do so, she has to enter a draft and could wind up working at a McDonald's in Cape Breton instead of Calgary. It makes no sense. There's no draft in soccer, kids are free agents (outside of MLS) and are free to sign with any team they like for whatever money that team is willing to pay them.

And that team can then transfer them wherever they want. Including to entire other leagues and continents. They don’t have to agree, but then they are out of a contract.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Trade for Ladd then for more than Mrazek.

But yes, trade Tkachuk to highest bidder, use cap space to recover assets, suck a year or two, hope to draft franchise players.

Why is Arizona giving you any assets to offload Ladd?

Sorry, I’m not following your logic here. You’ve been snarky enough that I’m expecting some good stuff that I’d be dumb for not buying into, but I’m just seeing generic spitballing that doesn’t seem in touch with what’s actually out there, available, or likely.

I disagree entirely with setting an arbitrary deadline pre- 2022 draft and trading Tkachuk for whatever you can get when you have control for a year+. That’s terrible asset management.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You haven't earned the right to complain that management failed to do things no manager could ever do.

No team has ever rebuild before? Traded a young 24 year old all star?

Chicago did it this off-season.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why is Arizona giving you any assets to offload Ladd?

Because when they traded for him after a year off of hockey they assumed he was LTIR and wouldn’t cost them anything. Instead he’s making 4M this year which Arizona of all teams would happily pay to get out of.

There was no intended snark, just one of the other cap/salary dump players that was heavily rumoured that the team wanted to move.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

No team has ever rebuild before? Traded a young 24 year old all star?

Chicago did it this off-season.

Chicago finished first in their division last year with 111 points, did they?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

An argument that begins ‘Some team will be dumb enough’ is not convincing.

Except that it happens almost every single year, and for aging support players, not a young star in their prime. Tkachuk would be a unicorn and the teams would be lining up to take a run at him.

Tell me, what team out there has equivalent linemates for Tkachuk, AND the cap space to add him to the roster without damaging it in other ways?

Anaheim Ducks. Can you imagine him being on a line with Zegras or McTavish? And then Anaheim has wealth of young talent coming up.

Buffalo Sabres. Another team with a wealth of young talent at all positions. Buy out Skinner and the possibilities are endless.

New Jersey Devils. Yeah, probably have to dump a salary, but could make it work and it would be pretty interesting to watch.

Seattle Kraken. Really scary thought. Tkachuk along side Berniers or Wright? Ouch.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Except that it happens almost every single year, and for aging support players, not a young star in their prime. Tkachuk would be a unicorn and the teams would be lining up to take a run at him.



Anaheim Ducks. Can you imagine him being on a line with Zegras or McTavish? And then Anaheim has wealth of young talent coming up.

Buffalo Sabres. Another team with a wealth of young talent at all positions. Buy out Skinner and the possibilities are endless.

New Jersey Devils. Yeah, probably have to dump a salary, but could make it work and it would be pretty interesting to watch.

Seattle Kraken. Really scary thought. Tkachuk along side Berniers or Wright? Ouch.

Crazy, the idea that a team would back up a brinks truck for a 25 year old UFA power forward who has so far in his career scored at a 29 goal 54 assist 73 point pace in his first 6 years in the league. Seems unlikely, those players are a dime a dozen.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Except that it happens almost every single year, and for aging support players, not a young star in their prime. Tkachuk would be a unicorn and the teams would be lining up to take a run at him.



Anaheim Ducks. Can you imagine him being on a line with Zegras or McTavish? And then Anaheim has wealth of young talent coming up.

Buffalo Sabres. Another team with a wealth of young talent at all positions. Buy out Skinner and the possibilities are endless.

New Jersey Devils. Yeah, probably have to dump a salary, but could make it work and it would be pretty interesting to watch.

Seattle Kraken. Really scary thought. Tkachuk along side Berniers or Wright? Ouch.

I think a lot more teams could do what it takes to bring a guy like him in. Don't forget a lot of GMs are oldschool and would break the bank for his grind it out style. I don't know what the Islanders have anymore but he'd be a Lamorillo guy. Personally I don't see him as a #1 option, but rather a number two like so many stars. But his unique skillset makes him more valuable on the trade market I'd think.

[kyuss275]

I was really hoping we would have a resolution by Friday. Hopefully they can sign him but I don’t see how they couldn’t accomplish that by Friday if he wants to stay. The only thing that makes sense is it gives them more time to trade him. Hope I’m wrong .

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It's like they've blocked that fact out of their minds. The Narrative™ is that the Flames are on an endless treadmill of mediocrity, forever finishing between 8th and 12th in the conference, and only a complete tank job can possibly save them. Whenever anything different happens (like this year or 2018-19), they simply make excuses to ignore those events so The Narrative™ can remain intact.



You haven't earned the right to complain that management failed to do things no manager could ever do.

But if you're so dead set that a total tear-down and rebuild is the only thing worth cheering for, then yes, you probably would be a lot happier as an Arizona fan. They've got nothing but scorched earth and draft picks – just the way you like it.

The ‘narrative’? LOL.

If there’s false narrative it’s buying into ownership’s ‘make the playoffs and see what happens’. WITH Johnny and we need roster reconstruction. Now? Playoffs are best case scenario.

There is no false narrative that paints mediocrity. Nope, that would just be the flames history as a franchise.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Tkachuk made 9 million dollars last year, so if they 85% rule if accurate that would be 7.65 million.

The 85% rule only works for the first arbitration window in which case club elected arbitration substitutes the qualifying offer. In this case it has to be at least $9M.

Club offer for Arbitration in the second window equal to or higher than the Players previous years combined base salary, signing bonuses and performance bonuses [CBA 12.3(b)(ii)]

source

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Imagine your seventeen year old daughter wants to get a job flipping burgers, but in order to do so, she has to enter a draft and could wind up working at a McDonald's in Cape Breton instead of Calgary. It makes no sense. There's no draft in soccer, kids are free agents (outside of MLS) and are free to sign with any team they like for whatever money that team is willing to pay them.

Lol get serious. If they offered me 850K a year to flip burgers in Regina I’d do it, and not consider it a form of oppression. Many jobs require that you relocate, for far less money than a professional hockey player makes… it’s legal because the player still has all the freedom in the world to do whatever they want in life, and live wherever they choose - unless they decide to take a job with the NHL. It’s like complaining that you got a job as an operator with Suncor, but they forced you to move to Fort Mac… the humanity!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Because when they traded for him after a year off of hockey they assumed he was LTIR and wouldn’t cost them anything. Instead he’s making 4M this year which Arizona of all teams would happily pay to get out of.

There was no intended snark, just one of the other cap/salary dump players that was heavily rumoured that the team wanted to move.

They get a draft pick that is conditional on Ladd being part of their org and not retiring for 22/23 so it benefits them to keep him and he’s only make $1M of real money, so he’s the exact kind of player they want.

Even then, it makes no sense because Arizona is purposely in a mode of using their cap to take on bad contracts and get draft picks out of it. They aren’t trying to save a buck to save a buck.

Though that’s kind of beside the point, which is that this is all great in theory, but the theory isn’t that meaningful when it’s dependent on things that aren’t possible, likely, or logical. The criticism feels pretty toothless at that point.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I was really hoping we would have a resolution by Friday.

The only way this would have been resolved by Friday would have been if he just signed his QO, and that wouldn't have been a good outcome for anyone.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Lol get serious. If they offered me 850K a year to flip burgers in Regina I’d do it, and not consider it a form of oppression. Many jobs require that you relocate, for far less money than a professional hockey player makes… it’s legal because the player still has all the freedom in the world to do whatever they want in life, and live wherever they choose - unless they decide to take a job with the NHL. It’s like complaining that you got a job as an operator with Suncor, but they forced you to move to Fort Mac… the humanity!

They're not employed by the NHL though, are they? They're employed by individual clubs calling themselves franchises.

A player should be free to play for his hometown team if he likes, and not be forced to live in the frozen tundra thousands of miles from home to make a living in his chosen profession. All the draft does is force these kids to play in undesirable locations like Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary. There's a reason no Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup since 1993. We're the development squads for American teams who have what it takes to win.

Columbus has won two playoff series in their entire history, but they're ten years closer to winning a Cup than we are. If I was Tkachuk, I'd sit out the season and sign with a real team next summer. Taking this guy to arbitration is exactly why nobody wants to play in Calgary.

[dissentowner]

You can tell the doom and gloom crowd are absolutely loving this offseason. If Tkachuk signs long term it will be for too much money or too much term. If he signs short term it will be too short and too much money. If he signs for one year and is traded no matter what we get back in return it will not be enough. If he signs for one year and leaves as a UFA this place will be super unbearable.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

They're not employed by the NHL though, are they? They're employed by individual clubs calling themselves franchises.

A player should be free to play for his hometown team if he likes, and not be forced to live in the frozen tundra thousands of miles from home to make a living in his chosen profession. All the draft does is force these kids to play in undesirable locations like Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary. There's a reason no Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup since 1993. We're the development squads for American teams who have what it takes to win.

Columbus has won two playoff series in their entire history, but they're ten years closer to winning a Cup than we are. If I was Tkachuk, I'd sit out the season and sign with a real team next summer. Taking this guy to arbitration is exactly why nobody wants to play in Calgary.

What makes you think a local kid wants to play here versus NYC?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You can tell the doom and gloom crowd are absolutely loving this offseason. If Tkachuk signs long term it will be for too much money or too much term. If he signs short term it will be too short and too much money. If he signs for one year and is traded no matter what we get back in return it will not be enough. If he signs for one year and leaves as a UFA this place will be super unbearable.

I’m really just hoping for one of two outcomes.

1) Tkachuk signs an 8-year contract (and yeah, it’ll be $10.5M or more)
2) Tkachuk is traded for a package including picks and top tier prospect (Jake Sanderson?)

No doom, no gloom - just hopeful that we get one of those two outcomes. Both have their positives and their negatives, but both are definitive statements on the direction of the team.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

They're not employed by the NHL though, are they? They're employed by individual clubs calling themselves franchises.

A player should be free to play for his hometown team if he likes, and not be forced to live in the frozen tundra thousands of miles from home to make a living in his chosen profession. All the draft does is force these kids to play in undesirable locations like Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary. There's a reason no Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup since 1993. We're the development squads for American teams who have what it takes to win.

Columbus has won two playoff series in their entire history, but they're ten years closer to winning a Cup than we are. If I was Tkachuk, I'd sit out the season and sign with a real team next summer. Taking this guy to arbitration is exactly why nobody wants to play in Calgary.

The NHL sets the rules of the league. Don’t like it, go do something else. If my chosen profession is to be a deep sea diver, but I want to live in Saskatchewan, I’m going to have to make a sacrifice somewhere.
So let’s pretend the NHL allowed all players to be free agents, what good would that do the league to have all the top rookies play for the rangers every year?

Also, how is Columbus 10 years closer to a cup?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Except that it happens almost every single year, and for aging support players, not a young star in their prime. Tkachuk would be a unicorn and the teams would be lining up to take a run at him.



Anaheim Ducks. Can you imagine him being on a line with Zegras or McTavish? And then Anaheim has wealth of young talent coming up.

Buffalo Sabres. Another team with a wealth of young talent at all positions. Buy out Skinner and the possibilities are endless.

New Jersey Devils. Yeah, probably have to dump a salary, but could make it work and it would be pretty interesting to watch.

Seattle Kraken. Really scary thought. Tkachuk along side Berniers or Wright? Ouch.

There’s a reason it doesn’t happen with a young star like this. A. He costs a ton right now. B. He’s a year long rental. In this case as well, to avoid him being a rental you have to negotiate with him and he’s not exactly proven to be an easy guy to make a deal with.