[News] UPD: Tkachuk arbitration hearing set for Aug 11

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Tkachuk made 7 million last season not 9.

As for the team elected arbitration I wish we had an expert on here to talk about that.

My understanding was 85 percent minimum of his contract as the bottom. Is that the previous season, or once a qualifying offer is presented 85 percent of that.

Has any team elected for team arbitration before? I cant recall.

I think it is kinda dirty by the team and I love it. Does not bold well for signing the player but could help with trading the player.

Regardless entertainment!

Chucky’s salary was $9M last season, hence his $9M QO. His cap hit was $7M AAV because it’s an average of the salary across three seasons

[agulati]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Tkachuk made 7 million last season not 9.

As for the team elected arbitration I wish we had an expert on here to talk about that.

My understanding was 85 percent minimum of his contract as the bottom. Is that the previous season, or once a qualifying offer is presented 85 percent of that.

Has any team elected for team arbitration before? I cant recall.

I think it is kinda dirty by the team and I love it. Does not bold well for signing the player but could help with trading the player.

Regardless entertainment!

His cap hit was 7 million, but his actual salary was 9 million dollars last year.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Wizards play checkers.

Pinball

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Was just looking at the arbitration list from 2020.

Tyler Bertuzzi (Red Wings) - still with Red Wings
Josh Ho-Sang (Islanders) - bouncing around trying to catch on
Devon Toews (Avanlanche) - still with Avalanche
Gustav Forsling (Hurricanes) - waived and claimed by Panthers
Victor Olofsson (Sabres) - still with the Sabres
Warren Foegele (Hurricanes) - traded to Oilers
Ryan Strome (Rangers) - still with the Rangers
Brendan Lemieux (Rangers) - traded to Kings
Ryan Pulock (Islanders) - still with the Islanders
Christian Jaros (Senators) - traded to the Sharks, then to the Devils
Mackenzie Weegar (Panthers) - still with Panthers
Hayden Fleury (Hurricanes) - traded to Ducks, exposed in expansion
Sam Reinhart (Sabres) - traded to Panthers
Ilya Mikheyev (Maple Leafs) - UFA to Vancouver
Jake Virtanen (Canucks) - working at Arbys
Connor Brown (Senators) - still with Senators
Chris Tierney (Senators) - still with Senators
Nick Paul (Senators) - traded to Lightning
Alexandar Georgiev (Rangers) - traded to Avalanche
Anthony DeAngelo (Rangers) - traded to Hurricanes then to Flyers
Linus Ullmark (Sabres) - free agent to Bruins
Clark Bishop (Hurricanes) - free agent to Flames
Ryan Graves (Avalanche) - traded to Devils
Kaapo Kahkonen (Wild) - traded to Sharks
Andrew Mangiapane (Flames) - still with Flames, going to second arbitration
Matt Grzelcyk (Bruins) - still with Bruins

26 players. Ten still with their arbitration team. 16 no longer in their organization. So 60/40 you aren't with the team long after arbitration.

Toews elected arbitration when he was with the Islanders and he subsequently got traded. So it is 17 left the organization and 9 still with the organization.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by flambers

Not sure its a good or bad move....

however not sure I have ever heard of this type of a move before.

Last year the Wild did with Fiala, Flyers with Sanheim, and Bruins with Carlo.
None in 2020.
Blues filed with Husso in 2019.
Devils filed with Miles Wood this year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/arbitration/2019/all/team

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Was just looking at the arbitration list from 2020.

Tyler Bertuzzi (Red Wings) - still with Red Wings
Josh Ho-Sang (Islanders) - bouncing around trying to catch on
Devon Toews (Avanlanche) - still with Avalanche
Gustav Forsling (Hurricanes) - waived and claimed by Panthers
Victor Olofsson (Sabres) - still with the Sabres
Warren Foegele (Hurricanes) - traded to Oilers
Ryan Strome (Rangers) - still with the Rangers
Brendan Lemieux (Rangers) - traded to Kings
Ryan Pulock (Islanders) - still with the Islanders
Christian Jaros (Senators) - traded to the Sharks, then to the Devils
Mackenzie Weegar (Panthers) - still with Panthers
Hayden Fleury (Hurricanes) - traded to Ducks, exposed in expansion
Sam Reinhart (Sabres) - traded to Panthers
Ilya Mikheyev (Maple Leafs) - UFA to Toronto
Jake Virtanen (Canucks) - working at Arbys
Connor Brown (Senators) - still with Senators
Chris Tierney (Senators) - still with Senators
Nick Paul (Senators) - traded to Lightning
Alexandar Georgiev (Rangers) - traded to Avalanche
Anthony DeAngelo (Rangers) - traded to Hurricanes then to Flyers
Linus Ullmark (Sabres) - free agent to Bruins
Clark Bishop (Hurricanes) - free agent to Flames
Ryan Graves (Avalanche) - traded to Devils
Kaapo Kahkonen (Wild) - traded to Sharks
Andrew Mangiapane (Flames) - still with Flames, going to second arbitration
Matt Grzelcyk (Bruins) - still with Bruins

26 players. Ten still with their arbitration team. 16 no longer in their organization. So 60/40 you aren't with the team long after arbitration.

It is hard to make any definitive conclusions from what you posted. I think in many cases, there were players here that were not established, and that teams may have walked away from the arbitration (assuming you searched for total arbitration cases - not team elected vs player elected ones).


Most of these players on the list weren't really established, much less stars. Hard to draw any comparisons as to them staying on their respective teams or not, and forming a potential conclusion from that towards Tkachuk's situation.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

It’s 85% during the first window (no qualifying offer granted) and player elected. During the second window, here, it’s 100% of his salary, not cap hit. He made 9M last year in salary.

The arbitrator is bounded by a minimum of 9M and a term of 1 year.

So really, there is no reason why the Flames would do this other than to prevent an offer sheet (unlikely to be a concern), or to give them more time to negotiate before he accepts his QO.

This obviously isn't about salary. In fact, if Tkachuk agrees to an extension, he will likely get paid more. This might be one of the only arbitration case where the team wants to pay MORE money to the player.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Not particularly, and certainly not in the context of this being a situation he created which we were aware of when he signed the contract.

Up to July 22nd (and at any point before) Tkachuk could have accepted his QO of 9M and then walked as UFA next year. He no longer can accept his QO.

However, he’s guaranteed at least that now by mid August if he goes to arbitration and can still walk and be a UFA next year making more than 9M.

So it does nothing but (potentially) hurt the Flames if Tkachuk is dead set on being a UFA.

He can no longer be given an offer sheet, but that means the Flames can’t match an offer sheet and the only poison pill offer sheet that exists is a one year contract worth 9-10.49M which gives them a couple first round picks, a second and a third (over 10.5M and it’s four firsts and I think you have to take the compensation), under 9M or longer than 1 year and the Flames are in a better situation than getting to arbitration.

I think this is a neutral move that both parties probably agreed to while they negotiate, but if not, the Flames are probably more concerned that Tkachuk was not going to accept his QO and hold out, otherwise the upside to arbitration does not outweigh the negatives in this situation.

That makes zero sense given that you were going on about giving Tkachuk and Gaudreau arbitrary deadlines in the other thread after which they’d be shipped off.

Now when the Flames actually set a firm deadline with Tkachuk it’s… bad?

[OptimalTates]

Also Strome left the Rangers as a UFA and Brown was traded.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That makes zero sense given that you were going on about giving Tkachuk and Gaudreau arbitrary deadlines in the other thread after which they’d be shipped off.

Now when the Flames actually set a firm deadline with Tkachuk it’s… bad?

It’s almost like they are completely different scenarios and knowing what Gaudreau would do at the draft mattered while an actual arbitrary deadline in summer doesn’t mean anything when you retain the rights of a player for one year regardless.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

So really, there is no reason why the Flames would do this other than to prevent an offer sheet (unlikely to be a concern), or to give them more time to negotiate before he accepts his QO.

This obviously isn't about salary. In fact, if Tkachuk agrees to an extension, he will likely get paid more. This might be one of the only arbitration case where the team wants to pay MORE money to the player.

The main reason to do this is to guarantee he’s at camp and to put leverage on him to sign long term if he doesn’t feel the 104 point season is replicable without Johnny

It’s a gamble

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Treliving knocking it out of the park.

Oh wise hockey oracle, please tell us all what the correct move here would have been. We are dying to know.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Was just looking at the arbitration list from 2020.

Tyler Bertuzzi (Red Wings) - still with Red Wings
Josh Ho-Sang (Islanders) - bouncing around trying to catch on
Devon Toews (Avanlanche) - still with Avalanche
Gustav Forsling (Hurricanes) - waived and claimed by Panthers
Victor Olofsson (Sabres) - still with the Sabres
Warren Foegele (Hurricanes) - traded to Oilers
Ryan Strome (Rangers) - still with the Rangers
Brendan Lemieux (Rangers) - traded to Kings
Ryan Pulock (Islanders) - still with the Islanders
Christian Jaros (Senators) - traded to the Sharks, then to the Devils
Mackenzie Weegar (Panthers) - still with Panthers
Hayden Fleury (Hurricanes) - traded to Ducks, exposed in expansion
Sam Reinhart (Sabres) - traded to Panthers
Ilya Mikheyev (Maple Leafs) - UFA to Vancouver
Jake Virtanen (Canucks) - working at Arbys
Connor Brown (Senators) - still with Senators
Chris Tierney (Senators) - still with Senators
Nick Paul (Senators) - traded to Lightning
Alexandar Georgiev (Rangers) - traded to Avalanche
Anthony DeAngelo (Rangers) - traded to Hurricanes then to Flyers
Linus Ullmark (Sabres) - free agent to Bruins
Clark Bishop (Hurricanes) - free agent to Flames
Ryan Graves (Avalanche) - traded to Devils
Kaapo Kahkonen (Wild) - traded to Sharks
Andrew Mangiapane (Flames) - still with Flames, going to second arbitration
Matt Grzelcyk (Bruins) - still with Bruins

26 players. Ten still with their arbitration team. 16 no longer in their organization. So 60/40 you aren't with the team long after arbitration.

Interesting. Note Strome is now in LA.
No one on this list though is really a comparison for Tkachuk as a true star player. Though I appreciate you putting it together.

[Enoch Root]

What percentage of players move within 2 years? (that would be the baseline to compare the list above against)

[dino7c]

It's amazing the worst managed team in league history was

6 out of 32 in the Regular Season
And 5-8 out of 32 after the playoffs

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by agulati

His cap hit was 7 million, but his actual salary was 9 million dollars last year.

Thank you!

Cap friendly says 7 million dollar cap hit so I assumed that was his pay.

I am wrong. Sorry for that. So if I pissed off anyone sorry.

Yet if we paid him 9 million last season, it was money well spent. He earned it.

[Enoch Root]

Some of you are absolutely horrific negotiators, as proven by every thread like this. Just assume the worst, interpret everything pessimistically, and just expect to lose.

It is so tiring to read.

Treliving did this to generate more negotiation time, and to eliminate the threat of an offer sheet. Period. Full stop. It does not mean that Tkachuk is gone (any more likely than a day ago)

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled misery

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Again, I'd just ask everyone take deep breaths here.

Way too early to look at this as negative. At best, it gives the Flames way more flexibility/time to negotiate.

At worst it gives them time to look for a trading partner prior to going into arbitration.

[Lanny_McDonald]

It was just one year of data. Not saying this impacts Tkachuk in the slightest. I personally think Tkachuk is as good as gone and has had that in his mind for a while. Treliving needs to get ahead of this one way or another. Clock is ticking and this needs to come to a head before the arbiter passes their decision IMO.

[EVERLAST]

Trade him to StLouis for Jordan Kyrou and Parayko since Tkachuk believes he's worth so much without getting fed by Johhny.

He already hinted at doing what the Tkachuks do so let him....and in doing so he really turned me off.

I like Matthew but he seems to want to be larger than anything and I can't cheer for a guy like that.

Handcuffing the organization and doing so with what just happened with Johhny and behaving as if it's a negotiating tool ....I just don't trust this .

My gut says the moment Johhny was gone Tkachuk figured he could get whatever he wants . Nope. I hope someone has a plan within the Flames because even they screwed up and now someone needs to fix things and make peace before more players jump ship.