[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You've been clear on that. But at what point do you recognize that the team isn't going to re-build now based on the core they have in place (which is in a very different spot than the Hawks) v. just continuing to grind that gear?



I would love a re-build. I just recognize it isn't happening and therefore don't see the value in constantly crying for something that isn't going to happen, at least right now.



Accept the fact they aren't re-building.



Now what?

This is exactly what I hear from my orange julius source. Ownership is simply happy to get one round of playoff revenue. Another game or two in round two is gravy. No appetite for a tear it down that would be required to ever challenge for the cup.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

And they did that while giving up future assets to get DeAngelo?

I'm not sure the point that they chose to spend on a younger and cheaper defenceman they then signed for only 2 years helps your point.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Said the same thing to Carolina...he was only going to NYR

the covid stuff is stupid though, Commie isn't the guy I am looking to for medical advice...he can say fear mongering but its getting out of control again in the US, few more 100k dead who cares I guess when you are a millionaire professional party guy.

Places like California have more covid restrictions right now than Calgary does

Covid (and the resulting restrictions) is definitely on the minds of any American player. The border was an absolute gong show for about two years. I personally had an awful time during my trip to the USA in November 2021. Ended up having to stay an extra night in a hotel in Seattle.

Alberta has fewer restrictions than several states, but if it's a matter of getting to actually see family across the border, Canada certainly hasn't made that easy.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm not sure the point that they chose to spend on a younger and cheaper defenceman they then signed for only 2 years helps your point.

He wasn't a UFA signing, they gave up multiple future assets with the expectations to win in those 2 years that they have DeAngelo. If they didn't, they are just giving up picks for nothing?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

One rando CPer says their friend doesn’t like Canada’s covid protocols and one insane person on twitter later and now there’s a narrative no one wants to play in Canada because of covid. Riiiiight.

Sure call me Rando whatever.

I simply offered the thoughtful take of an NHL player who played in the league 10 years longer than yourself, who has a family and happens to be really intelligent. Would not compare him to Commodore at all.

Will keep quiet next time.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

He wasn't a UFA signing, they gave up multiple future assets with the expectations to win in those 2 years that they have DeAngelo. If they didn't, they are just giving up picks for nothing?

They traded a 22 4th, one of multiple 23 3rds they own and a 24 2nd, and a for his signing rights and a 7th. And then signed him to a 2 year bridge. Maybe they did give up those picks for nothing - but they obviously didn't want to sign a long term deal. Philly isn't exactly known for the kind of tear downs you pine for.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re not building evidence of anything, you’re whining that the Flames aren’t doing what you want them to do and pretending the fact that they aren’t is evidence of some universal truth. Your ideas come off like this is a video game where timelines and other actual humans are irrelevant to your will to make your moves. It’s pure fantasy.

Yeah, I'm not pretending to hold any universal truth here other than that our management is poorly connected, on the outs with the rest of the league, and out of touch with the wishes of it's own players. They can say they have plans, but their plans are just pure fantasy and no different than the lot of us shooting the #### around the forum.

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well said.

Man you would say that to Pepsi's ####### as it passed wind. Get a room.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Philly isn't exactly known for the kind of tear downs you pine for.

They also aren't exactly known for being good either right now.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Sure call me Rando whatever.

I simply offered the thoughtful take of an NHL player who played in the league 10 years longer than yourself, who has a family and happens to be really intelligent. Would not compare him to Commodore at all.

Will keep quiet next time.

No, thanks for the info. Don’t let one poster get you down. I for one believe it. Huge pain in the butt all these needless restrictions.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

They actually couldn't off load the salary to make it happen. Big difference.

Meh, if they really wanted him they could. They didn't want him that badly, if that gloss improves the view.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah, I'm not pretending to hold any universal truth here other than that our management is poorly connected, on the outs with the rest of the league, and out of touch with the wishes of it's own players. They can say they have plans, but their plans are just pure fantasy and no different than the lot of us shooting the #### around the forum.



Man you would say that to Pepsi's ####### as it passed wind. Get a room.

oh boy.....there's no point here.

as you were, keep yelling at the clouds.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

So since I disagree with management... I can't disagree with management?

Bingo asked what I would have done differently. I say what I would have done differently. You say it's crying.

You can do and say what you want.
But I'd be interested in what your answers are under an assumption that a re-build isn't coming.
What would you do then?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by fleury

Sure it sounds good in the context of a bar. But so many negotiations come down to the deadline. The lesson BT has to learn from here with unreliable players is to set an earlier artificial deadline. This can’t happen again.

The thing is, Gross wasn't born yesterday. You set an artificial deadline, he's going to know it's artificial and advise his client to call your bluff. Everybody knew when the real deadline was.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by activeStick

The Flames will make the playoffs. There's not nearly enough respect given to the rest of the team. Johnny was a big part of the offense but Lindholm and Tkachuk aren't going to suddenly turn into pumpkins.

Of course they are. The whole team is made up of nothing but pumpkins. Remember, this is the roster that – WITH Gaudreau last year – was going to be worse than Seattle.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The thing is, Gross wasn't born yesterday. You set an artificial deadline, he's going to know it's artificial and advise his client to call your bluff. Everybody knew when the real deadline was.

Probably also worth acknowledging that Lewis Gross was Craig Conroy's agent. I would imagine that there was a pretty solid working, and perhaps personal, relationship there.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah, I'm not pretending to hold any universal truth here other than that our management is poorly connected, on the outs with the rest of the league, and out of touch with the wishes of it's own players. They can say they have plans, but their plans are just pure fantasy and no different than the lot of us shooting the #### around the forum.

Man you would say that to Pepsi's ####### as it passed wind. Get a room.

“I’m not pretending to hold any universal truth other than the three baseless opinions I have that I am calling universal truths.”

Sorry didn’t realise I was speaking to a brick wall. Carry on as you were, building all that great evidence.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You can do and say what you want.
But I'd be interested in what your answers are under an assumption that a re-build isn't coming.
What would you do then?

So pretty much, we need to assume that "I" can't do anything but exactly what Treliving did? Again, I fall back on what's the point of a discussion?

If ownership does not allow him to rebuild, something as speculative as anything said in this thread, then I would like a GM with the Flames who is able to convince ownership otherwise.

This isn't "Hey, there's a good draft next year, let's trade everyone" it's "Hey, we're about to lose our star franchise player for nothing and the next franchise players are right there available for grabs in the top 3 next draft, it's time to make the move".

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

So pretty much, we need to assume that "I" can't do anything but exactly what Treliving did? Again, I fall back on what's the point of a discussion?

If ownership does not allow him to rebuild, something as speculative as anything said in this thread, then I would like a GM with the Flames who is able to convince ownership otherwise.

This isn't "Hey, there's a good draft next year, let's trade everyone" it's "Hey, we're about to lose our star franchise player for nothing and the next franchise players are right there available for grabs in the top 3 next draft, it's time to make the move".

So you only see two options:
What you are suggesting
What BT is doing.

That's it. Two options? No other possibilities.

I outlined earlier what I think they should do which is treat this year as a transitional one, and retain as much optionality cap wise for the next 2 summers.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TOfan

oh boy.....there's no point here.

as you were, keep yelling at the clouds.

I do need some cloud yelling time, that I will give you.

But the points stand:

1. Out of touch with players: Gaudreau's entire presentation was outlined around making him the focal point of stardom in the city. Making him a lifelong flame. Talking about eventual statues of him. It is pretty damn clear after the decision he made that none of these things were even remotely on his priority radar. So why was that the pitch? Out of touch. The Lucic story, out of touch. Monahan not going on IR until after the trade deadline? Super out of touch. This management team is not connected to the players on the roster, their wants or their needs.

2. Out of touch with league: Just look at the typical signings this management group makes on a year to year basis. It's always against the general league trend of player. That's why we wind up with Neals, or Brouwers, or Colemans.

3. Poorly connected in the league: this one is a hunch, but it doesnt seem like we're ever the prefered dancing partner anywhere. We're always the second choice. Treliving is "in" on everything, but never completes the deal. Why the hell is that the case? IMO it's lack of cohesion.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

So pretty much, we need to assume that "I" can't do anything but exactly what Treliving did? Again, I fall back on what's the point of a discussion?

If ownership does not allow him to rebuild, something as speculative as anything said in this thread, then I would like a GM with the Flames who is able to convince ownership otherwise.

This isn't "Hey, there's a good draft next year, let's trade everyone" it's "Hey, we're about to lose our star franchise player for nothing and the next franchise players are right there available for grabs in the top 3 next draft, it's time to make the move".

Wait - you think the Flames' trading partner is going to be top 3 in the draft? I thought you said it was Philly. The only possible one was NJ and they didn't need to move cap space. They also didn't want gaudreau enough it seems.