[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[tvp2003]

Sometimes I wonder if some fans get more horny over asset management versus winning hockey games. Playoffs? Unbelievable first round series? Battle of Alberta? Nah, let’s trade away all of our expiring contracts because getting something is always better than getting nothing.

I know the last time I went to the Dome the Treliving chants were amazing, no doubt the guys playing the game on the ice are secondary to the executives up in the press box where the real excitement happens. Wow!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

"Panic" yeah, exactly what we should expect from a Flames GM.

The player who talked about how great it would be to play at home was becoming a UFA and there wasn't any ink on the paper. But let's just assume he'll sign last minute and not do anything about it.

Right but if you're in his shoes and you don't know what he's thinking and you won't find out until the last minute because that's the agent's history what do you do?

Move him for a mid round pick to make sure you look smarter than if he just walks away completely voiding a 50% chance of bringing a huge asset back for nothing?

Your box in is unreasonable.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Sometimes I wonder if some fans get more horny over asset management versus winning hockey games. !

I think a lot more fans are horny about winning important games, like say in the Stanley Cup finals or even the Conference Finals. Something the Flames haven't done in 18 years.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Right but if you're in his shoes and you don't know what he's thinking and you won't find out until the last minute because that's the agent's history what do you do?

Move him for a mid round pick to make sure you look smarter than if he just walks away completely voiding a 50% chance of bringing a huge asset back for nothing?

Your box in is unreasonable.

Hey, Gaudreau isn't signed, he clearly wants to go to Philly, maybe a sign-and-trade where it's win-win-win could work during the draft! But Philly goes out and gets DeAngelo shortly after the draft and now that's off the table. A lost opportunity because Treliving wanted to gamble on the least sure gamble he could make.

Again, you don't need to be a psychic to have a contingency plan or set deadlines to ensure the best possible outcome for your organization when depending on situations out of your control. This wasn't some unforeseen circumstance that no one could have predicted.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Well there are other restrictions than crossing borders
And if you want to discuss politics, go #### yourselves

Obligatory

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Why is it trading him in the off-season of the previous season or going into UFA period blind the only options?

A good GM should have known whether his franchise player was staying before the draft at the very least. To assume that the Flames plan for the draft was the same whether Gaudreau stayed or left would be a bigger cause for concern than Treliving getting blindsided like this.

To what end? What do you think they would have done at the draft? Do you really thing they turned down any amazing deals out of fear of scaring away Johnny?

Maybe OTT gives up the DeBrincat package for Tkachuk? I'm not convinced they want to turn their room into a Tkachuk family reunion or pay Matty enough, though.

I'm very skeptical 2OA was ever on the table for Matty and his contract uncertainty.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Hey, Gaudreau isn't signed, he clearly wants to go to Philly, maybe a sign-and-trade where it's win-win-win could work during the draft! But Philly goes out and gets DeAngelo shortly after the draft and now that's off the table. A lost opportunity because Treliving wanted to gamble on the least sure gamble he could make.

Again, you don't need to be a psychic to have a contingency plan or set deadlines to ensure the best possible outcome for your organization when depending on situations out of your control. This wasn't some unforeseen circumstance that no one could have predicted.

Dude - they'd get like a 3rd round pick for this. Its better than nothing - but its not exactly the difference between winning a cup and not winning a cup. The same situation happened last year with Hyman and the Leafs/Oilers. Everyone knew he was going to the Oilers so the question was would the Oilers trade for him to get the 8th year. They couldn't agree to it because the Oilers had next to no motivation to trade anything of value because they already knew they were getting the player.

[OptimalTates]

I'm not the GM, but I expect a competent GM to go into the draft with a different plan depending on whether their franchise player was back or not. If it's the same, that's more concerning than not getting an asset for Gaudreau.

Treliving should have known by the draft to plan accordingly. Given him the best offer and if Gaudreau didn't sign, time to move on instead of giving him that offer with an hour left to free agency.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Hey, Gaudreau isn't signed, he clearly wants to go to Philly, maybe a sign-and-trade where it's win-win-win could work during the draft! But Philly goes out and gets DeAngelo shortly after the draft and now that's off the table. A lost opportunity because Treliving wanted to gamble on the least sure gamble he could make.

Again, you don't need to be a psychic to have a contingency plan or set deadlines to ensure the best possible outcome for your organization when depending on situations out of your control. This wasn't some unforeseen circumstance that no one could have predicted.

This over simplification of these options highlights why fans get so bent out of shape over this stuff. If your sign and trade option was even something remotely executable for Tre, I'm sure he would have looked into it. This situation was for more complex, with JG holding most of the control. Really, it's no more sophisticated of an opinion than what we here on here all the time, things like: Winners win, losers lose that fans trounce out like they are some sort of educated opinion on how things should go.

The only reasonable critique of Tre's handing of this situation is that he let it go past the seasons end. I am glad he did, and think he made the right choice for a number of reasons. But if asset maximization + recovery is what you think he should have done with Johnny (which is a very fair opinion), then focus your complaint round his decision to allow Johnny to remain a flame past the trade deadline this year. After that point, unless he'd been told otherwise (and all indication is that the Johnny did not let the Flames know Calgary wasn't an option until the 11th hour) then doing what you could to try and get Johnny was the right call. A trade and sign would have required Johnny to have complete faith in our ability to make that trade, to the partner he want's to go down that path. You know what that means...............in order to get Johnny to agree, it would need to be know the right team (Philly) was in and ready to go. You know what that means..........#### return for the Flames. You are sweating that Tre didn't make a symbolic trade at this point to basically say, look we didn't get nothing...........but like the Iginla trade years go, it essentially would be nothing.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Hey, Gaudreau isn't signed, he clearly wants to go to Philly, maybe a sign-and-trade where it's win-win-win could work during the draft! But Philly goes out and gets DeAngelo shortly after the draft and now that's off the table. A lost opportunity because Treliving wanted to gamble on the least sure gamble he could make.

Again, you don't need to be a psychic to have a contingency plan or set deadlines to ensure the best possible outcome for your organization when depending on situations out of your control. This wasn't some unforeseen circumstance that no one could have predicted.

Get your resume in!

You've figured out the whole thing.

Now if only the current GM (you know the one with a history of kicking tires on every single option out there) had bothered to look into other ideas before taking Gaudreau to the wire.

Oh well

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

I think a lot more fans are horny about winning important games, like say in the Stanley Cup finals or even the Conference Finals. Something the Flames haven't done in 18 years.

All of us can lug around the big 'ol bag and bring it into any discussion.

We all want that.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

I'm not the GM, but I expect a competent GM to go into the draft with a different plan depending on whether their franchise player was back or not. If it's the same, that's more concerning than not getting an asset for Gaudreau.

Treliving should have known by the draft to plan accordingly. Given him the best offer and if Gaudreau didn't sign, time to move on instead of giving him that offer with an hour left to free agency.

How do you make Gross tell you by the draft when is MO is to wait until the last possible moment?

You don't see how simplistic you're making something that just isn't?

Good for message boards I guess ... useless in the real world is my guess.

[OptimalTates]

And it's not like Gaudreau leaving stopped the Flames dynasty. They have won a grand total of 1 game outside of the first round since Treliving became GM. 8 years and nothing to show for it, and we're now entering the "dark period" of his reign.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Get your resume in!

You've figured out the whole thing.

Now if only the current GM (you know the one with a history of kicking tires on every single option out there) had bothered to look into other ideas before taking Gaudreau to the wire.

Oh well

Oh yeah, if there's one thing we can rely on Treliving to do is to kick tires and then hurt his toe doing it.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Good for message boards I guess ... useless in the real world is my guess.

The real world doesn't have heads of organizations go "Well I hope this happens, but if not, we're ####ed" and keep their jobs.

Especially when that head has nothing to show for his 8 years being the leader.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

The real world doesn't have heads of organizations go "Well I hope this happens, but if not, we're ####ed" and keep their jobs.

Especially when that head has nothing to show for his 8 years being the leader.

Can you show me that Treliving quote? Didn't read it ... seems like you're making it up

You're just arguing for the fun of arguing now.

The history of Treliving being in on everything doesn't fit with your narrative of having no plan at all.

You just have an axe to grind and you're going to grind it regardless of what anyone says.

Reminds me of someone else on this board.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

The real world doesn't have heads of organizations go "Well I hope this happens, but if not, we're ####ed" and keep their jobs.

That's probably also not what happened here.
What you are describing is made up in your head.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It depends on where you live in the US. It’s mostly state based

Travel restrictions aside, which are federal restrictions, most daily restrictions in Canada were also imposed at the provincial level.

I imagine this has more to go with travel and the possibility of becoming isolated in Canada due to travel restrictions on both sides. For some players, it probably matters less, but the Gaudreau's are like a travelling band.

[OptimalTates]

So when can we blame Treliving for something? 8 years, one second round win (game, not series) no prospects, best player just left for nothing, new best player could take a QO and head out in a year too. If that happens do we just have to say that Treliving did his best but he wasn't a psychic?

If he had a better track record, he could be given some leeway, but even if Gaudreau decide to stay, Treliving has done far less than other GMs who have been shown the door.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Hey, Gaudreau isn't signed, he clearly wants to go to Philly, maybe a sign-and-trade where it's win-win-win could work during the draft! But Philly goes out and gets DeAngelo shortly after the draft and now that's off the table. A lost opportunity because Treliving wanted to gamble on the least sure gamble he could make.

Again, you don't need to be a psychic to have a contingency plan or set deadlines to ensure the best possible outcome for your organization when depending on situations out of your control. This wasn't some unforeseen circumstance that no one could have predicted.

How often do "sign and trades" actually occur? What's the incentive for that for Gaudreau? What's the incentive for Philly?

There seems like a lot of hindsight going on here. In the summer of 2021, Gaudreau was coming off two awful years in a row, at least partially do the Flames having awful coaching. There was also an unpredicted flat cap in place. I can't see Gaudreau wanting to sign a long-term deal at low value and then just counting on the Flames to move him.

Gaudreau had also finished the season under Sutter at a PPG pace. Likely he knew he was capable of more than a 50-60 point season and wanted the extra contract year to increase his own value.

I also don't think Philly was ever very serious about Gaudreau. He doesn't need for him to be signed for them to push for a trade. They wouldn't even move cap to acquire him now (likely at a discount).