[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I would have thought the 'draft a worse player because the better one you like won't sign with you' theory would have been thoroughly discredited back in the Lindros days.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That's only because they knew we had Fox, so they insisted on him over a draft pick. If we didn't have him, I personally doubt that it would have held up a deal.

Or they would have insisted on a different prospect they liked
The point is he had value to help complete a deal that was good for the club

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Locke

You guys are being a little rough on Ol' Chucko. What did do? Kick your dog?

His stats tho....woof.

Yeah, hopefully he's not a member of CP.

[Dragomir]

Johnny was pretty overrated anyways when it mattered most in the playoffs, we all saw how he couldn't hold a candle to McD or Drai. This could be a good thing in the long run but if the Flames ever want to compete they need to rebuild now.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

A firmer grip? Outside of kidnapping JG I don't think there was much he could do. JG answered to a bigger boss.

I totally think a different approach by an agent would yield different results. Yes there are other bosses but you get that input early. Go through pros and cons. Come up with a plan and decide in advance what you are willing to accept. Being undecided until the last minute doesn’t happen this way.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I totally think a different approach by an agent would yield different results. Yes there are other bosses but you get that input early. Go through pros and cons. Come up with a plan and decide in advance what you are willing to accept. Being undecided until the last minute doesn’t happen this way.

Do you actually know that Gross didn't do these things?

No amount of preparation and planning will help an agent if his client flakes at the last minute.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I totally think a different approach by an agent would yield different results. Yes there are other bosses but you get that input early. Go through pros and cons. Come up with a plan and decide in advance what you are willing to accept. Being undecided until the last minute doesn’t happen this way.

It does if your client is undecided until the last minute.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Possibly Fox?

You pass on a future Norris winner that you can trade for another asset for a player that likely doesn't play at all?

The next ten players taken after Fox are highlighted by the Rem Pitlick. That's it.

This literally makes zero sense.

A more difficult scenario is you’re drafting 7th OA and have two or three players your scouts like in that range. One is an American going the college route. Do you take him anyway, or go with the Canadian or Swede? It’s easy to say you can always trade him later, but unless they really explode in D+1 or D+2, even players drafted with high first round picks rarely net a high first round pick in return.

We already see this sort of risk factored into evaluations of Russians. It sucks, but Canadian teams might need to start doing the same calculation with American players.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It does if your client is undecided until the last minute.

I don't think Johnny was ever really truly undecided. I just think he was afraid to make the decision so he let the clock do it for him.

It's like when two people are in a relationship and one person is thinking about leaving and has an overnight bag packed just in case they decide to leave. If that bag is ready to go, then the decision has already been made and it is only a matter of time until it's used. When Johnny said he didn't want to negotiate until the end of the season, that was him packing the overnight bag. His heart may have been saying stay, but his head was already putting the mechanisms in place to leave. If you're in that situation and asking question still in the final days, then you already know the answers and just don't want to admit it.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Do you actually know that Gross didn't do these things?

No amount of preparation and planning will help an agent if his client flakes at the last minute.

A client is far less likely to flake with proper preparation and planning.

An agent's job is to help their client achieve their client's optimal result. A sensible first step would be to drill down what optimal result means to them, and understand their priorities and mindset as much as possible. That means building rapport and trust. And knowing the right questions to ask. Reading their client and working through any nagging doubts or issues they may be struggling to articulate.

Another key objective would be avoiding potential pitfalls and surprises. In the year or so leading up to free agency that probably means a dinner or two with JG's parents and trying to get 1on1 time with his wife, and obviously lots of conversations with Johnny.

I'm sure some clients are easier than others. Knowing that you don't know enough should also change your approach.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A more difficult scenario is you’re drafting 7th OA and have two or three players your scouts like in that range. One is an American going the college route. Do you take him anyway, or go with the Canadian or Swede? It’s easy to say you can always trade him later, but unless they really explode in D+1 or D+2, even players drafted with high first round picks rarely net a high first round pick in return.

We already see this sort of risk factored into evaluations of Russians. It sucks, but Canadian teams might need to start doing the same calculation with American players.

Or you know, make it more restrictive or punitive for drafted players to avoid signing with the teams that drafted them.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Possibly Fox?

You pass on a future Norris winner that you can trade for another asset for a player that likely doesn't play at all?

The next ten players taken after Fox are highlighted by the Rem Pitlick. That's it.

This literally makes zero sense.

And fox himself returned almost 0 value for us. In the Hamilton Ferland for Lindholm Hanifin swap Hamilton was the best player to date in that trade. We got 2 worse pieces (at the time, lindholm has grown his game a ton since then, hanifin to a lesser extent) than Hamilton and also gave up Ferland who was below the 2 guys we traded for. Fox was a minor sweetener at thar time.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Johnny chose to sleep in the master bedroom with the boss in Columbus vs the garage in Calgary

Good choice

So stupid, so if he doesn't do what the bigger boss says, he can't use any of the stuff HE BOUGHT? That sounds like a horrible relationship with a control freak. He made all the money.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

And fox himself returned almost 0 value for us. In the Hamilton Ferland for Lindholm Hanifin swap Hamilton was the best player to date in that trade. We got 2 worse pieces (at the time, lindholm has grown his game a ton since then, hanifin to a lesser extent) than Hamilton and also gave up Ferland who was below the 2 guys we traded for. Fox was a minor sweetener at thar time.

Hahaha!!! Oh man.

That’s right. Basically they did the Flames a favour taking the asset off their hands.

It was well known where Fox was trending. He had the prospect value of a compromised first round pick. To say he had almost zero value is ridiculous.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think Johnny was ever really truly undecided. I just think he was afraid to make the decision so he let the clock do it for him.

It's like when two people are in a relationship and one person is thinking about leaving and has an overnight bag packed just in case they decide to leave. If that bag is ready to go, then the decision has already been made and it is only a matter of time until it's used. When Johnny said he didn't want to negotiate until the end of the season, that was him packing the overnight bag. His heart may have been saying stay, but his head was already putting the mechanisms in place to leave. If you're in that situation and asking question still in the final days, then you already know the answers and just don't want to admit it.

But we can't forget about the $$$ part of the equation. I think Johnny knew for a long time that he'd prefer to be somewhere else, but harder to answer is how many millions was that preference worth?

How did Gross manage his/their expectations on CGY vs. UFA?

This was essentially his 3rd time navigating UFA with a pretty big client (neither really comparable to Gaudreau, though):

1. Krug - signed on Day 1 in 2020 - 2nd biggest deal that year after Pietrangelo. I'm sure it wasn't "easy", but probably more simple as reports are that BOS held firm on 6x6.5 and let him hit UFA. He got 7x6.75.

2. Saad - signed day 2 in 2021...also in STL. Coming off 1 season in COL, who probably considered him Plan B to Landeskog (though who knows how Saad felt about that). Probably not too complicated...

No shade on Gross, but it's fair to ask exactly how well he know what he was doing given the lack of experience with similar situations.

Dumoulin is 1 yr to UFA. It will be interesting to see if he stays with Gross.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Hahaha!!! Oh man.

That’s right. Basically they did the Flames a favour taking the asset off their hands.

It was well known where Fox was trending. He had the prospect value of a compromised first round pick. To say he had almost zero value is ridiculous.

It was well known he wasn't signing anywhere but NYR, that cratered Fox's value. If he was actually worth a first then why would we have given up Ferland in that deal? Fox was a throw in. Lol you've got an odd way of seeing things.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

It was well known he wasn't signing anywhere but NYR, that cratered Fox's value. If he was actually worth a first then why would we have given up Ferland in that deal? Fox was a throw in. Lol you've got an odd way of seeing things.

Then why did Fox still return two second round picks to Carolina from the Rangers?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

It was well known he wasn't signing anywhere but NYR, that cratered Fox's value. If he was actually worth a first then why would we have given up Ferland in that deal?

Becuase Lindy & Hanifin had a lot of upside and both teams knew it.

[ricardodw]

What did the Flames do (other than $$$$) to keep Gaudreau?

Was there support for his new wife? Is there a strong WAG support group in Calgary?

It seemed that Gio and his wife went of into the community on their own, not as leaders or part of the Flames Players and Wives?

Was there any kind of team support for the young guys starting with the Flames? Robatille billeting with Dionne comes to mind.

Iginla sort of lead Kobasew and Ferrence in off season training.

Did anyone think to involve her with Calgary's Childrens Hospital? Board of directors, Fundraising?

Gaudreau's only cogent reason that he said he jumped to Columbus was the great bunch of guys that liked playing there.

Who were Gaudreau's buddies on the Flames? Monahan is supposed to be a close friend? Was Gaudreau comfortable with the Flames playing Monahan hurt?

It would be interesting how Gio saw the Flames organization after being Captain of the Kraken. He sure was not coming back to Calgary when he had a chance. Did he (and his family) have a better personal experience with the Kraken and then the Leafs? would that have gotten back to Gaudreau?


I think the American sports have more of a wine and dine their players mentality. Huge University recruitment culture ( and even High school) based on no salaries gets them to have strategies that make a player want to be there without beyond the money.


I would think that the Flames would have had someone (Conroy?) assign to Gaudreau to make sure he wanted to come back to Calgary and if there was something that didn't quite work for him that the Flames would address it.

The owners of the Blue Jackets John P. McConnell is CEO and Chairman of board of Worthington Industries that is a Steel Company that is in the 100 best companies to work for that has highly recognized employee-based policies.

His dad was a major philanthropist that was the founder of the Blue Jackets.

[Macman]

We had Brian Burke here while Gaudreau was here and he’s a big proponent of all the charity and community works.