[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ who reported a Flames offer of a 7 year contract after UFA? Because didn’t Treliving publicly say right after the deadline that there was no chance he was coming back?

Steinberg was sourced recently in the thread - I’ll get links when I’m on comp


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

First, draft the best player available, which means players that are most likely to play with the Flames. Stop drafting Americans that have no connection to Canada. When you do draft them, make sure you educate them on Canada/Calgary and make their entire support network invested in the player establishing that long-term relationship. Make everyone see the value in staying in Calgary and want to be here long-term. Maintain as much control as you can, and when you're in a situation where you're going to surrender all control, have an exit strategy.

It’s getting clear tha some fans think teams and GMs have a lot more magic power and psychological control than they actually do.

Did the same GM that just signed Gaudreau somehow fail with reading Panarin? Anyway, the Flames treated Gaudreau and his family like royalty - I’ve never seen a player’s family so feted.

The exit strategy you talk about would have been accompanied by calls for Treliving’s head even more than now.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So obviously the Leafs should trade Matthews?

I’m not sure stuff that happens six years ago when a kid is at a completely different stage is a big sign. Getting to UFA quickly is a motivation for most young players. It’s not about leaving, it’s about bucks.

The Leafs are in the exact same position as us, yes. Except Matthews worked them to get 5 years on his RFA contract right to UFA. He's also going to leave, and that's a big sign why. Should they trade him? That's a tougher question. Probably not, just like the Flames the Leafs window is defined by their best player's contract term, sometimes the best use of an asset is to actually use it and hope for the best instead of flipping for something just for the sake of asset management. And that's before taking into account ownership and fan pressure. They're literally in the exact same boat, I would imagine we'll see the same thing play out with them that we just had.

That's just one example but it was a constant drip-drip that JG was almost certainly going to leave. If it was so unpredictable then how did I predict it years ago? It was very clear.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Steinberg was sourced recently in the thread - I’ll get links when I’m on comp


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I saw the reference, but not where he got it from. But Treliving was asked in the post-rejection presser and he was pretty blunt so I really doubt they made any offer.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

The holdout on his RFA contract was a pretty big sign. That summer Monahan signed a 7 year basically right away, Gaudreau's went right up to training camp, sounded contentious, and took less money to sign for 6 years. That right there is a pretty big clue that he wanted to UFA as fast as possible, to bounce. How many best friend young guys have we seen sign matching contracts? A lot of them, not that one though. It's because he always had an eye to moving back east.

Gaudreau is older than Monahan so it just made sense in terms of when each would hit UFA.

That RFA negotiation should tell you the next one will also be tough, but there aren’t really any tea leaves to read about him leaving to take specifically from it


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[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

First, draft the best player available, which means players that are most likely to play with the Flames. Stop drafting Americans that have no connection to Canada. When you do draft them, make sure you educate them on Canada/Calgary and make their entire support network invested in the player establishing that long-term relationship. Make everyone see the value in staying in Calgary and want to be here long-term. Maintain as much control as you can, and when you're in a situation where you're going to surrender all control, have an exit strategy.

You draft the best player available ... every time.

Better to have value in an asset that doesn't want to play for you, then drafting someone safe that has literally zero value.

In the 2016 third round, where Calgary picked Adam Fox, there isn't a player near his selection point that has played a full season.

They would still be in the Flames system though!

Draft talent. Deal with what comes afterwards.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

How will Lewis Gross be viewed? He did apparently get Calgary to meet every demand and offer more than anyone. But if I was a parent looking for an agent for my kid, I think I would want someone with a firmer hand on the wheel. JG needed more help in arriving at a decision…not someone allowing some consensus approach with several competing voices pulling him in different directions at the 11th hour. And then hold his feet to the fire to follow through on the original plan.

I am going to go relisten to the 32 thoughts pod with Lewis Gross assistant. A lot of talk in there if I recall about Gaudreau being pretty wide eyes.

A firmer grip? Outside of kidnapping JG I don't think there was much he could do. JG answered to a bigger boss.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Gaudreau is older than Monahan so it just made sense in terms of when each would hit UFA.

That RFA negotiation should tell you the next one will also be tough, but there aren’t really any tea leaves to read about him leaving to take specifically from it


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Yeah, it just tells me they are betting on themselves to get a huge contract at UFA time versus locking up a guaranteed salary for the longest time.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So obviously the Leafs should trade Matthews?

They should be prepared for that potential outcome. If Matthews doesn't want to get his John Hancock on a contract in a timeline the team wants, they should deal him. You can't be a fan when take these challenges on. That was Treliving's problem here IMO. Possibly too much of a Gaudreau fan to understand all the things done and said in the past. Also didn't take the family motivators into consideration. Not sure if Matthews is still dating Emily Rutledge, but she's an Arizona girl and Matthews is an Arizona guy, so the Leafs should keep that in mind and plan accordingly.

[Sylvanfan]

Right now the US is arguably turning out the most talent of any country out there. To just ignore that and always settle for an inferior player would be bonkers.

Get the arena situation fixed ASAP so you don't look like a second rate minor league organization. If you have to trade guys 5 years into their career than start doing that. But keep drafting the best payers and deal with the signability at year 5.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I saw the reference, but not where he got it from. But Treliving was asked in the post-rejection presser and he was pretty blunt so I really doubt they made any offer.

What was the actual question in that presser? I don’t think it was ‘will you make him an offer tomorrow’, but something more like ‘any chance you can still work out a 7 yr deal’…


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

They should be prepared for that potential outcome. If Matthews doesn't want to get his John Hancock on a contract in a timeline the team wants, they should deal him. You can't be a fan when take these challenges on. That was Treliving's problem here IMO. Possibly too much of a Gaudreau fan to understand all the things done and said in the past. Also didn't take the family motivators into consideration. Not sure if Matthews is still dating Emily Rutledge, but she's an Arizona girl and Matthews is an Arizona guy, so the Leafs should keep that in mind and plan accordingly.

“All the things said and done in the past”? Like his August 2020 interview where he said he wanted a long term contract with Calgary?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1297942429769723906

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You draft the best player available ... every time.

And the best player to draft is the player that wants to play for you. If you get the feeling there may be challenges with that, you don't draft them. You don't draft players for draft capital downstream, you draft players to make your on-ice team better.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

“All the things said and done in the past”? Like his August 2020 interview where he said he wanted a long term contract with Calgary?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1297942429769723906

[GioforPM]

^^ Fair enough, but really what actions aside from signing a shorter contract 5 years before he said that? Not buying a house?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And the best player to draft is the player that wants to play for you. If you get the feeling there may be challenges with that, you don't draft them. You don't draft players for draft capital downstream, you draft players to make your on-ice team better.

I kinda doubt they did an interview with a 4th round pick before selecting him.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

A firmer grip? Outside of kidnapping JG I don't think there was much he could do. JG answered to a bigger boss.

A good agent would get a handle on that (presuming it’s true) and proceed accordingly.

Too many people in this situation made too many assumptions.


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

A good agent would get a handle on that (presuming it’s true) and proceed accordingly.

Too many people in this situation made too many assumptions.


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At the very least a good agent wouldn’t harm his rep by offering a number that, when accepted, his client turns around and rejects.

A lot of this had to do with Gross’s past rep though as well. People had more confidence in a last second deal because Gross has always dealt that way. Nylander, Krug, Gaudreau’s last deal…

[GirlySports]

Maybe Gross didnt know the influence of the bigger boss until the 11th hour.

[GirlySports]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1548131773439041538