So what are they doing?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

This is all well and good but what teams are trading their 2023 firsts that have salary cap space and are not rebuilding? To tear this team down to the studs enough to compete for 1st overall is going to be extremely complicated as this team is still very good even minus Johnny. They won the division last year. There just isn't enough potential buyers at the moment I feel.

The deadline is definitely the time to sell. Teams will all have much better cap situations going into next year. Currently, there are very few competing teams that could even take on the cap for a guy like Tanev.

It's also easier for teams to move high picks/prospects, when the playoffs are looming and the arms race begins, not at the start of training camp.

[UnitedFlames]

Zadorov said something interesting in that Calgary Sun interview: “From my understanding, this team is not going through any rebuilds or anything like that."

So maybe he asked the Flames if they were going to rebuild, they said no, and that was one of the factors that made him decide to return.

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey...nue-to-contend

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by blankall

The deadline is definitely the time to sell. Teams will all have much better cap situations going into next year. Currently, there are very few competing teams that could even take on the cap for a guy like Tanev.

It's also easier for teams to move high picks/prospects, when the playoffs are looming and the arms race begins, not at the start of training camp.

The thing is that we can also function to take negative cap hits off of contending teams if a rebuild is going on. But I agree, some guys will be easier to sell at deadline. However I think that top tier are guys that anyone would move roster pieces to make room for right now.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Okay, this is getting out of hand. Gaudreau was not the only player on the ice and his teammates weren't lucky to just have him grace the ice the same time as him. Gaudreaus success was also equal parts to the absolute quality of his line mates as well.

I've been reading for days now how our players are just going to suck because water bug baby Jesus isn't here any longer.

Eff that. Eff that line of thought and straighten yourselves out. I get it, bummed out he's gone is an understatement, but eff anyone who thinks the likes of Lindholm and Tkachuk were just lucky to be there and recieve blessed pucks from Gaudreau.

I get your point but you have to be sensible about it as well. Unless there is a meaningful upgrade made before the season, you can't go into the year with a top 6 of Tkachuk, Lindholm, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Backlund and Dube and expect to be able to do serious damage against any of the top 4-5 teams in the conference. Infact, the majority of the season would be a complete slog with some of the bad teams last season obviously closing the gap on the Flames, if not passing them entirely.

Toss in a pretty lackluster bottom 6 full of plugs outside of Coleman, and this team has 8-12 seed written all over it.

If the plan is to now put everything into landing Kadri, I surely hope it is a moderately sensible deal and that Treliving knows that he's able to extend Tkachuk as well. If not, the time to strip this down is now and actually get something for some of these assets before all value is lost again.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by UnitedFlames

Zadorov said something interesting in that Calgary Sun interview: “From my understanding, this team is not going through any rebuilds or anything like that."

So maybe he asked the Flames if they were going to rebuild, they said no, and that was one of the factors that made him decide to return.

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey...nue-to-contend

I'd probably say the spin would be there's no intent to rebuild, but if they end up having to trade Tkachuk and anyone else for picks/prospects, they've basically been forced into one.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I get your point but you have to be sensible about it as well. Unless there is a meaningful upgrade made before the season, you can't go into the year with a top 6 of Tkachuk, Lindholm, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Backlund and Dube and expect to be able to do serious damage against any of the top 4-5 teams in the conference. Infact, the majority of the season would be a complete slog with some of the bad teams last season obviously closing the gap on the Flames, if not passing them entirely.

Toss in a pretty lackluster bottom 6 full of plugs outside of Coleman, and this team has 8-12 seed written all over it.

I feel like a lot of people discredit the contributions of Darryl Sutter here. He is going to use the walking of Gadreau as ammo to turn this team into an even tighter checking and more relentless team.

I remember all the people saying they were going to be terrible last off season too and it looks like they are right back at it again this off season. Trust Sutter hockey!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The thing is that we can also function to take negative cap hits off of contending teams if a rebuild is going on. But I agree, some guys will be easier to sell at deadline. However I think that top tier are guys that anyone would move roster pieces to make room for right now.

Moving roster pieces is not an easy task right now. Philly refused to do it for Gaudreau. The Avs are struggling to find a place for Kadri. Options for any players are going to be very limited. Then the teams have to factor in the cost of moving cap, which is going to detract from what they can pay for the Flames players they are looking to acquire.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by blankall

Moving roster pieces is not an easy task right now. Philly refused to do it for Gaudreau. The Avs are struggling to find a place for Kadri. Options for any players are going to be very limited. Then the teams have to factor in the cost of moving cap, which is going to detract from what they can pay for the Flames players they are looking to acquire.

Both the scenarios you identified are different. Adding a straight salary by moving out roster players and taking in no salary is definitely extremely difficult.

But exchanging extremely good roster players with low salaries (I.e. Tanev and Lindholm) to a contender who can offload a worse contract (say, JVR in the example of philly) should be much easier.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Both the scenarios you identified are different. Adding a straight salary by moving out roster players and taking in no salary is definitely extremely difficult.

But exchanging extremely good roster players with low salaries (I.e. Tanev and Lindholm) to a contender who can offload a worse contract (say, JVR in the example of philly) should be much easier.

The Flames have made it clear they are not rebuilding this year. Why not focus on what the team might actually do?

[Goriders]

Are there any top teams that are in big trouble cap space wise that the flames could cherry pick players from?

Tampa and Vegas come to mind. I thought Vegas was screwed due to the Eichel gong show.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The Flames have made it clear they are not rebuilding this year. Why not focus on what the team might actually do?

It took us 4 straight first round playoff losses, followed by 4 straight years missing the playoffs, and Iginla & Kipper being pending UFAs, for Murray Edwards to agree to an actual rebuild last time.

Yeah a rebuild isn't happening anytime soon (and I think Treliving gets extended too and don't see him gone anytime soon).

[Flames2319]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think the initial plan right now is to lock up RFAs...starting with Tkachuk.

Flames don't actually have a ton of cap room even with Gaudreau leaving.

They probably needed to move Monahan and Lucic to make space for the Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Mangiapane raises.

But with Gaudreau gone now they have to assess if they still want to spend assets to move those contracts, or just sign their own RFAs and not dip into the UFA market.

Totally agree but they have more cap space than what they would’ve had for sure so I think mangi and tkachuk should be dealt with. They will get more though hopefully

[Flamesfan05]

There is basically no cap room to add anyone significant unless they move Lucic or Monahan

Johnny actually made Treliving‘a job easier

Now he has money to sign the RFAs

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Are there any top teams that are in big trouble cap space wise that the flames could cherry pick players from?

Tampa and Vegas come to mind. I thought Vegas was screwed due to the Eichel gong show.

Teams currently within $1M of the cap or less with contracts that might be palatable to take on are:

Tampa Bay:

-Alex Killorn: 1 x $4.45M - 25 goals, 59 points in 82 Games - could fit in our middle six with Mangiapane moving to line 1 LW.

- Philippe Myers: 1 x $2.55 - Flames had him in a tryout, interest in the past.

Washington:

- Anthony Mantha: 2 x $5.7m - 9 goals, 23 points in 47 games. Hasn't really fit in Washington and has been underperfoming since 19-20 in Detroit.

- Nick Jensen: 1 x $2.5M - RD - 21 points in 76 games, probably would fit on bottom pairing with Zadorov.

Florida

- MacKenzie Weegar: 1 x $3.25M: Probably would cost too much but would be a great fit on a Sutter team IMO

- Radko Gudas: 1 x $2.5M - Big, mean, probably would cost nothing to trade for and would be almost a like for like Gudbranson replacement. This wouldn't surprise me at all.

Vancouver

- Tanner Pearson: 2 x $3.25M: Toffoli's running mate in LA when Sutter was coaching, was a guy Sutter liked, bit of a bounce back offensively last year.

Vegas

- Alec Martinez: 2 x $5.25M: Another Sutter favourite from his time in LA. On the older end of things at 34 and has battled injuries the last couple years.

Pittsburgh

- Jason Zucker: 1 x $5.5M: Terrible year last year, hasn't fit in with Pittsburgh but for 50% retained maybe Flames would take a look, they did have interest in the past.

Montreal

-Dadonov, Hoffman, Dvorak, Anderson, Drouin...Montreal has a bit of a grab bag of forwards that I could see them looking to move at some point.

Philadelphia

- James Van Riemsdyk: 1 x $7M: still had 24 goals and 38 points last year. Not a guy you'd take for $7M but if Philly retained $3M then maybe you'd take a look. Also the hilarity of helping Philly open up cap space...after Gaudreau signed in Columbus.

Once again though the Flames actually don't have much cap space once their own RFAs are dealt with. Unless they are still looking at moving Lucic and Monahan.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

There is basically no cap room to add anyone significant unless they move Lucic or Monahan

Johnny actually made Treliving‘a job easier

Now he has money to sign the RFAs

i doubt it, I cannot imagine the Flames not adding a key piece.

Trades route is the most likely scenario IMO

If they go with the current lineup, the team is likely going to struggle

[traptor]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Kylington or Valimaki dealt for a young forward with top 6 potential. (necas, vilardi, wahlstrom, bellows, beauvillier, garland, hoglander to name a few)

Zadorov played the left side all year for us. Both Mackey and Valimaki should be aiming for an NHL role. It feels like a position of depth where we could afford to trade an asset.

With Tanev anchoring the second line, I feel confident you could stick any of our LD with him and make a solid second pairing.

[MrMike]

I’ve wanted Radko Gudas on our team for a long long time.

[Harry Lime]

Mackey absolutely deserves a shot. Does either he or zad play the right side?

I think that valimaki is behind both of them on the depth chart, but might have more trade value than either of them.

[Macindoc]

Probably overly optimistic on a number of points, but in an ideal world, I would:

- sign Tkachuk for 9.25M X 8
- sign Mangiapane for 5M X 5 (still gives him a chance for one more big paycheque at the end of the contract)
- sign Kylington for 2.25M X 1 (show me contract)
- sign Kadri for 7M X 7 (term a bit too long to keep cap hit down)

- trade Lucic to Anaheim with 2024 3rd for 2023 5th (throw in lower tier prospect if necessary)
- trade Anaheim's 2023 5th to Tampa Bay for Killorn (cap dump, final year of contract before UFA)

- bring Pelletier up
- bring Mackey up

- keep Monahan on LTIR until cap space available (precedent set by Las Vegas/Tampa Bay)

In this ideal world, you would have:

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Killorn-Kadri-Toffoli
Dube-Backlund-Coleman
Pelletier-Ruzicka-Lewis

Hanifin-Andersson
Kylington-Tanev
Mackey-Zadorov

Markstrom
Vladar

Rooney sits the pine and can be plugged into any forward position when needed.

Bring a fully healed (for the first time in 5-6 years) Monahan back for the playoffs as a PP specialist.

Cap hit: $82,163,333
Net cost to organization (prospects/futures): 2024 3rd
Future issues this creates: Killorn could leave as UFA after 1 year, back end of Kadri contract will suck, Kylington will get a big raise in the off-season if all goes well.

[Goriders]

Looking at the Flames in capfriendly. The Lucic and Monahan contracts will stop them from bringing in a Gaudreau equivalent.

Still need to get Tkachuk, Mangiapane and Kylington signed.

Somehow dumping monahan would be a blessing. He’s a big boat anchor at this point. You still get value out of Lucic in my mind.

I don’t see an easy way of replacing Gaudreau’s output unless Treliving can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Johnny leaving without getting anything in return is pretty devistating. To get an equivilent player we’d have to give up something else at this point. Or throw a boatload of cash at Kadri in desperation.

People have discussed Tkachuk resigning but Mangiapane has a lot more leverage now too.

Treliving is going to need a good therapist after all of this is over. I honestly think Johnny will end up getting him fired. Fun business to be in.