Brad Treliving needs to go

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't think Johnny strung the team along at all.

I think he was genuinely conflicted but in the end the pros outweighed the cons for going home.

I agree. I think all in all the outcome is just unfortunate. But, we will see what the team makes of it starting tomorrow.

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[CGY12]

I'm hoping ownership wakes up and isn't pleased with the corner BT has back this organization into and moves on in the next week (doubt it). If not I would hope BT would resign and move on, the team needs a new leader (doubt it).

In a business that is all about asset management, we continue to make blunder after blunder. BT is a good person, has set a standard in terms of respect and class that is vital to an organizations culture, but he is not the one to make tough critical decisions to lead this team to the next level.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CGY12

I'm hoping ownership wakes up and isn't pleased with the corner BT has back this organization into and moves on in the next week (doubt it). If not I would hope BT would resign and move on, the team needs a new leader (doubt it).

In a business that is all about asset management, we continue to make blunder after blunder. BT is a good person, has set a standard in terms of respect and class that is vital to an organizations culture, but he is not the one to make tough critical decisions to lead this team to the next level.

You don’t think ownership was consulted and signed off on the approach with Johnny including whether or not to trade him?

[dammage79]

I'm convinced now is the time to change GMs. You just lost your most valuable asset to FA. It's a gaping hole in your plan.

A vote of no confidence. I'm not going to rail on it any more than this until we see what unfolds in the next few days.

But I just don't have faith in the management group to not do the same song and dance with the next biggest asset on the roster. And thats a critical red flag for me.

[Jacks]

Treliving has been the GM for 8 years now.
Going forward are the Flames a better team now than then? it's debatable.


Cutting the rebuild off at the knees and trading away high picks like candy at the first sign of success was brutal. Firing the coach who had the team playing hard just to hire garbage coach after garbage coach was brutal. Too many apologists, it's not like he's the worst GM ever but he hasn't done a good job overall.

[Vinny01]

I think Treliving has had some good drafting under his watch but his really great moves revolve around Hamilton. Bringing Dougie in and sending him away were the best moves he made. He signed some good RFA contracts (I wish he would have paid Johnny for 8 years instead of 6 you can look up the thread I definitely said it in 2016). His raiding of the Canucks in 2020 was his best work in free agency but it took too long to get a good coach. He let too many players be lost for nothing. He has made some pretty big whiffs and this team has made the playoffs in 5 of his 8 years only winning a round in year 1 and year 8.

The prospect pool is average and only Bscklund and Monahan remain from the team he inherited.

I am upset right now but losing our best player for nothing a year after he lost our captain for nothing it is getting close to time to turn this thing over with someone new

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You don’t think ownership was consulted and signed off on the approach with Johnny including whether or not to trade him?

You're probably right and in that case may god help us all who love this team.

Ultimately they probably lean on the people they hire to make a recommendation on how to move forward, so despite signing off, you trust your leaders to make key decisions that move the org forward. When that doesn't happen time after time, its time to swallow your pride and move on.

[TheDude]

Treliving doesn’t need to be and won’t be fired anytime soon. 2022-23 is the last year of his contract. This year he’ll spend to the cap, taking the 10’ish mil earmarked for “John” and add two to three players. He’ll try to create three balanced lines that can score a little and can defend their own zone, plus a heavy forth line to grind teams when needed. He’ll probably trade a 2nd and/or a 3rd if the Flames are within striking distance of making noise in the playoffs (top 3 in the Pacific), and of course they’ll have to make the playoffs. If he’s able to do this he’ll be GM beyond 2023.

If the team is below .500 in December/January I can see ownership making a change. A new GM with no existing relationships with the players will come in and sell off pieces, and the Flames will be heavy players at the draft.

Hope everyone is ready for some 2-1 games, Sutter is going to full Sutter this year.

[rollie619]

Maybe they'll bring Darryl back as GM

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree. I think all in all the outcome is just unfortunate. But, we will see what the team makes of it starting tomorrow.

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How does a GM not have internal deadlines and game plans for worst case scenarios.

How is there no drop dead date that would allow you to do anything except take a stupid home run swing at someone like Claude Giroux or Kadri?

He’s done this three times now.

The one time he actually tried to cut bait on a player, he got Lindholm and Hanifin, so you’d think he’d see the value in selling some pieces while they have surplus value around the league.

Allegedly, a top-2 pick was offered for Tkachuk. At that point, you ask Matthew, just like you ask Gaudreau, “are you in, or are you out?”.

If you’re in, great. Here’s the number. Sign it, you have five minutes to talk it over. If you don’t need five minutes, enjoy New Jersey.

I don’t know what’s going to be worse - losing Tkachuk for nothing or losing him for the 28th pick in the draft.

Neither - what’s worse is watching Brad Try Hard ‘work’.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Allegedly, a top-2 pick was offered for Tkachuk. At that point, you ask Matthew, just like you ask Gaudreau, “are you in, or are you out?”.

See, there's your problem right there. You admit up front that it was ‘allegedly’, and then go on to blame Treliving for missing out as if it were a proven fact.

I mean, why did he trade Neal for Lucic, when he allegedly could have got McDavid? I know he allegedly could have, because I'm alleging it now. Anybody can allege anything.

We know New Jersey talked to a number of different teams about trading the #2 pick, and that Calgary was among them. We don't know that they would have traded the pick for Tkachuk one for one, or that they wouldn't have got an offer they liked better from one of the other teams. What we do know is that after talking to all those teams, they decided to keep the pick.

But hey, Treliving has to be fired, so an unsubstantiated rumour is as good a reason as any. Any stick will do to beat a dog.

If you’re in, great. Here’s the number. Sign it, you have five minutes to talk it over. If you don’t need five minutes, enjoy New Jersey.

Right, because you don't have to involve the player's agent or anything. Either that or the agent doesn't have any other clients and will do a deal in five minutes if you just whistle loud enough.

Seriously, have you ever negotiated anything in your life? People can take longer than five minutes to haggle over a lampshade at a garage sale.

[Calgary4LIfe]

This may surprise some:


Treliving is the 6th longest tenured GM in the league. Where did the time go? Holy smokes!


Starting from him and going to the longest tenured, only Kekalainen has seen less playoff success. They both had their teams make the playoffs 5 times, but the Blue Jackets have only been to the 2nd round once, and the Flames twice under Treliving.



Chevelayoff has taken his Jets team to the Conference Finals once.



The remaining GMs have all reached the finals during their tenures (Poile, Nill) or won a cup (Armstrong).


Under no other GM in Flames' history has this team not drafted in the first round more often. That's valuable draft capital spent on building a winner.


Flames have had some up and down years under Treliving in the regular season - they have finished 2nd overall in the NHL and last season was a very strong finish by this team as well. However, judging by playoff success, this team has been underwhelming. At best, I would call them mediocre - not bad, definitely not good.


I am not saying Treliving should be fired - there have been worse GMs in the league, and worse GMs in the history of this organization. However, outside of two good regular seasons in the last 8, I can not agree with any argument that attempts to prove that Treliving's job shouldn't even be questioned at this point. The only one that I can agree on is: "Flames may end up with a worse GM than Treliving" - I wholeheartedly agree to that sentiment, but should the fear of replacing Treliving with a worse hire preclude all attempts to improve the GM position?


I won't be upset if Treliving is retained, and I won't be upset if he is relieved of his duties and replaced. I just think that under his 8 year tenure (once again, the 6th longest in the NHL currently) this has been a team that has spent to the cap and has spent valuable draft capital, but have only had mediocre playoff success.


I would actually prefer a new GM come in, and this team to enter in a rebuild. I like a lot of the young talent on this team, but there is little in the way of elite gamebreakers. Some very good players - this team without Gaudreau is still probably a playoff team. Perhaps the right FA signings (assuming players still want to sign here with Gaudreau gone - and assuming the rumours were false about players wanting to leave if Gaudreau wasn't re-signed) could turn this into a contender. It is a solid foundation here. Just not enough high-end talent, and that's the hardest to acquire.


You may not end up drafting Bedard/Michkov/whomever else becomes elite, but you rebuild for a couple of seasons at least (with the strong base the Flames have, and how well they draft and develop starting from 2007-08, I don't think it would take more than 2 seaons - 3 at most, but legitimate rebuild).


Either way, this off-season is huge with whatever direction this team goes in. Rebuild? Sutter? Treliving? Tkachuk? Who stays? Any big UFS signing?


If Treliving isn't relieved, well, I think if the Flames have another poor season, that's it for him. Is 10 years the magical cut-off where your GM at least builds a team for a conference finals appearance? How about 3 consecutive playoff appearances - another feat not accomplished under Treliving. A finals? I am not sure by which metric he should be judged for continuing with the Flames, or being fired. I just think that so far, this has been a mediocre team at best where the playoffs are concerned.



If he is retained, that's fine. I just openly wonder by which decision point is the right one to move in a different direction. 6th longest tenured GM in the league (again, holy smokes it seems like yesterday).

[Classic_Sniper]

I honestly don’t care if Treliving stays or goes at this point. It’s Murray Edwards who needs to accept the idea of rebuilding. Maybe he doesn’t understand the NHL, but it should be a cyclical league.

You win for a while, then you lose for a while. Trying to constantly eek your way into the playoffs by any means necessary so you can make a couple of bucks isn’t how you build a contender.

That’s the strategy that has lead to the Flames being stuck in middle for seemingly forever. Enough middling, be smart and honest. It’s time for this organization to finally commit to rebuilding the right way, go big or go home.

[GioforPM]

If people want Treliving gone for a general lack of success, fine. Decent argument to be made. But firing him for this particular event is not on.

[GreenLantern2814]

You honestly think this man’s body of work justifies his retention?

He only hired Darryl because Murray made him. If not for that, he’d be long gone.

Why did he trade Neal for Lucic? He traded the worst contract in the NHL (which he gave out) for the most buyout proof contract in the NHL. I love Looch, he’s never been a problem so long as he’s been here, but the best thing about him is he isn’t Neal.

It’s almost beside the point whether or not the 2nd pick was available.

What is undeniable is Jersey has the room to make that deal. They still would have had room to sign Gaudreau with a Tkachuk acquisition and extended.

Getting Gaudreau and Tkachuk in one fell swoop to pair with Hughes and Hischier is a really good plan. It’s the sort of plan you offer the 2nd pick in a wide-open draft to secure. I have no reason to doubt that it wasn’t talked about.

The Flames went into spin mode afterwards, saying how Tkachuk was never available, just like they did after the Eichel fiasco.

They knew what Gaudreau’s heart was set on. Knowing that, they could’ve done any number of things to insulate themselves from the worst possible outcome, which this for sure is.

They didn’t.

It may well have cost them Shane Wright. It certainly cost them something, because what they have to show for this is nothing.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If people want Treliving gone for a general lack of success, fine. Decent argument to be made. But firing him for this particular event is not on.

This is the cherry on top, not the sole reason.

[robertsfan]

If brad does not have a plan b with gaudreau leaving he should be drawn and quartered.

We’ll see what happens Wednesday- the weekend to see what is done with the 10 mil in cap space.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CGY12

This is the cherry on top, not the sole reason.

The cherry on top has nothing to do with Treliving at the end of the day.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by robertsfan

If brad does not have a plan b with gaudreau leaving he should be drawn and quartered.

We’ll see what happens Wednesday- the weekend to see what is done with the 10 mil in cap space.

Brad Treliving couldn’t find a Plan B with a pharmacist holding his hand.

Who’s ready to give $50M to 34 year old Claude Giroux?

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The cherry on top has nothing to do with Treliving at the end of the day.

Yes it does. I don't understand the love for this guy. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like he hasn't done some good, but results matter and as the 6th longest tenured GM in the league he's produced little. Now the org and the fan based are backed into a corner because of his handling of Johnny, this combined with his results, it is certainly the cherry on top to move on IMO.