Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Right, because actually playing and winning hockey games is never a consideration. Having Gaudreau on the roster for his career year had zero value to the team.

Losing Gaudreau for nothing now, is what equates to zero value for the team. Obviously you always want to take care of your business before it gets to squeaky bum time like this. It's not good business, but sometimes it is unavoidable.

This is not one of those situations when you have a willing partner in Gaudreau 12 months ago. Put yourself in Treliving's shoes and you really have to wonder how someone who is an asset manager, would have thought this would play out positively for the franchise.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Double that, because Tkachuk is very likely going to demand the same deal.

The way this is all going I wouldn't be shocked if we had to trade Tkachuk just to be able to realistically fill out the roster the next few years until some other contracts expire that we can't realistically trade our way out of before we're signing other big UFA deals.

Granted if we can instead find a reasonable trade for Lucic, Monahan, Coleman, Mangiapane, etc... and replace them with cheaper options. Then sure, bring on the matching deal for MTk.

[bluejays]

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by Icon

The way this is all going I wouldn't be shocked if we had to trade Tkachuk just to be able to realistically fill out the roster the next few years until some other contracts expire that we can't realistically trade our way out of before we're signing other big UFA deals.



Granted if we can instead find a reasonable trade for Lucic, Monahan, Coleman, Mangiapane, etc... and replace them with cheaper options. Then sure, bring on the matching deal for MTk.

Don't disagree. But Coleman is untouchable imo at this point. They made a commitment to him, and he's only going on year 2.

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[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Right, because actually playing and winning hockey games is never a consideration. Having Gaudreau on the roster for his career year had zero value to the team.

I'd rather long term thinking than gambling on a core that isn't built for a Cup. Lets try winning more games that matter.

But hey, some are happy with just a good regular season and I guess that's fine too.

[devo22]

if re-signing Gaudreau means no long-term deal for Tkachuk, then you trade him for assets. You know, asset management ... the thing people have critized Tre for.

[Erick Estrada]

As exhausting as this is, once this concludes we will have to deal with uncertainty of the Tkachuk situation.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

Bingo.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

He totally is worth $11mil +!

If he is gone the Flames are going to try to kill themselves trying to score 2.5 goals a game without him. It's back to 2005 again. But without Iginla this time.

This is why i changed my avatar to Johnny in a Flyers jersey 3 years ago when you had all these guys trying to run "little Johnny" out of town. We don't deserve him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As exhausting as this is, once this concludes we will have to deal with uncertainty of the Tkachuk situation.

Sign Gaudreau, trade Tkachuk for young cost-controlled players.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

$1.5 could also be viewed as the difference from not signing an aging free agent and instead going with an entry level option from your farm team or PTO or reclamation trade... Other teams do it, Flames for whatever reason seem to continually choose higher cap hit options in the bottom 6 & 3rd pair.

[littlereddevil]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Lucic just has to go. I like him but that cap hit us just huge

Yes. Flames need to move past the era of paying guys for their "playoff intangibles" and hanging onto them just for sentimental value. It's this mentality that made us overpay for players like Brouwer and has kept us from being able to strengthen our lineup for the playoffs when weaknesses get exposed (i.e. our defence).

I like Lucic, but he's easily overpaid by $3M. Trade him to a team desperate to reach the cap floor if you can (like Anaheim).

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

Absolutely. We've hit the point where fans are willing to have the Flames pay whatever it takes to keep Johnny, and that's a recipe for disaster. If that deal gets made, it's because Treliving should've made the tough decision to deal Johnny before the limited NTC kicked in. Waiting until the 11th hour is entirely on him.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

I guess I might agree with you if the team didn't overpay for guys like Troy Brouwer and James Neal. The way I see it, I just don't think +$1.5M for a proven 100 point player is that big of a deal. Yet, we have no issues paying that for guys to sit up in the press box eating popcorn?

[442scotty]

You can always trade Johnny to Philly down the road for picks and or assets. Assuming he’s willing. Right now you got jack ###t!

[Icon]

Originally Posted by manwiches

Don't disagree. But Coleman is untouchable imo at this point. They made a commitment to him, and he's only going on year 2.

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I hope Coleman stays too, point was more if we need more money because Gaudreau's here, and we want to keep Tkachuk, something will have to give... he's just somewhere on that list.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by devo22

if re-signing Gaudreau means no long-term deal for Tkachuk, then you trade him for assets. You know, asset management ... the thing people have critized Tre for.

You're not getting great value on a rental with a $9M cap hit that has serious questions about his long term desires. It will probably be necessary if things play out this way with Gaudreau, but I wouldn't expect a haul in return given the situation.

That Tkachuk contract is another great example of when the franchise needed its GM to play hardball and get the team a better deal that didn't result in this one-year RFA season with a massive QO required.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Icon

$1.5 could also be viewed as the difference from not signing an aging free agent and instead going with an entry level option from your farm team or PTO or reclamation trade... Other teams do it, Flames for whatever reason seem to continually choose higher cap hit options in the bottom 6 & 3rd pair.

This exactly. Over pay for Johnny, spend the money so Tre doesn't have any money to spend on UFA he thinks still has it.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

I hear you, but when I'm stroking the cheque in July for my season tix that's not what I'm thinking.

I'm wanting to see JG on this team for a very long time.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, overpaying by $1.5 is a big deal in a cap world. You have to make sure you don’t overpay for anyone, but justifying overpaying because we’ve overpaid others is flawed logic. If you can’t get rid of that contract it’s a big deal. Johnny is not worth $11M at all in my mind. Go back to multiple posts over the past three or four years where the pitchforks were out to see how inconsistent he’s been at times. I’m not a hater but he slots in well at $9.5. At $11 it’s a franchise altering number and if you’re banking on him as your future cornerstone for the next eight years many of us will be screaming in five years where this will be a handcuff to what we do. Same posters complain about what McDavid’s contract has done for the oil and he’s a far better player (honestly objectively). These massive contracts are team killers.

Slightly overpaying to re-sign Johnny makes sense at this point. The alternative is to go right back to being a yearly bubble team. It's not what Sutter is here for.