Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think they tried to get a deal done last summer but I doubt Brad was willing to go above 8.5 million a year last summer. So there was some tough negotiations but no deal. Hopefully the Flames can get a deal done today for around 11 million a year.

Yeah, and Brad should not have gone that high last year based on Johnny's production. And there was no reason for Johnny to sign last year, I can fully understand why he wanted to try and increase his value rather than signing a contract while his value was low. So here we are today, in a perfectly understandable situation that is no one's fault. Could Brad have traded Johnny at the beginning of last season, sure if he thought he had no chance of signing him but clearly that is not the case.

[tvp2003]

Happy Johnny Signing Day!

The only thing that would make it not happy is… well, you know.

Actually, my biggest fear is that Treliving won’t be able re-sign Johnny because he’s already been fired for “letting it” get to this point (or so I’ve been told…).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Who shouldn't have allowed it? This makes no sense.

The GM??? The guy that negotiates contracts and has the ability to change personnel and direction of the team?

Let me guess. This whole thing is a huge surprise and the team had no control over any of this mess?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

But the predictability of the situation is the part that can’t be changed by one individual, even a GM. It is the system. Players can go UFA. They choose to sign, where and when. The system is working, we just might not like the result.

[transplant99]

A counter point to signing JG.........something to chew on

If Gaudreau wants north of $10 million US per season — and after the year he had, he certainly deserves it — then GM Brad Treliving might want to walk away before heading down the same path as the Edmonton Oilers and Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes, you need superstars to win. But if you have too many of them, you might not be able to afford depth.

It’s another way of saying Calgary’s stars are underpaid.

It’s also what has made the Flames the Flames. This is not a one-star team. This is not even a one-line team. The Flames come at you in waves, with a roster that had three 40-goal scorers, another who scored 35 goals and six others who had 10 goals or more.

Their strength was their depth; it was their identity.

Now, it’s in danger of being stripped away.

No question, Gaudreau deserves every million he is going to make, whether it’s in Calgary or New Jersey or Philadelphia. After spending last summer being traded over and over again on Twitter, the 28-year-old responded by scoring 40 goals and finishing in the top-5 in the NHL with 115 points. He finished fourth in Hart Trophy voting, which literally goes to the “player judged most valuable to his team.”

With the cap moving at a crypto-like pace, every million counts.

The Flames might be able to afford to sign Gaudreau for what he wants. But If he gets $10 million, how much should Tkachuk get? And what’s the trickled down effect on Mangiapane?

Can the Flames pay their Big Three in the neighbourhood of $30 million and still have the money left over to sign depth players? After all, $10 million doesn’t buy what it used to.

It can, however, still get you two players for the price of one. No one on the market is going to replace Gaudreau’s offence. But two might, particularly if Nazem Kadri and Dylan Strome are those two players. Even if they don’t score as much, more offence might not be what Calgary needs.

Discuss.


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl...c8528cfc1e403f

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The GM??? The guy that negotiates contracts and has the ability to change personnel and direction of the team?

Let me guess. This whole thing is a huge surprise and the team had no control over any of this mess?

At what point could the GM have forced Gaudreau to sign a contract? Why on earth would Gaudreau have signed last year after two of his poorest seasons? And why would Tre have traded him last year of Johnny indicated that he wanted to stay in Calgary? I don't understand what you think could have been done.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

But the predictability of the situation is the part that can’t be changed by one individual, even a GM. It is the system. Players can go UFA. They choose to sign, where and when. The system is working, we just might not like the result.

The Flames system certainly is not working.

They took a risk when they chose not to sign or trade Gaudreau last summer. They prioritized short term "success", and (to this moment) over-estimated their ability to sign Gaudreau this summer. There were other paths available to them, but they made their choices and accepted their risks. You can't just ignore that. The GMs job is to manage this system to their own advantage, and (as of this moment) this particular risk that Treliving took is not looking so good.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames system certainly is not working.

They took a risk when they chose not to sign or trade Gaudreau last summer. They prioritized short term "success", and (to this moment) over-estimated their ability to sign Gaudreau this summer. There were other paths available to them, but they made their choices and accepted their risks. You can't just ignore that.

You don't know that they 'chose' not to sign Gaudreau last summer. I think the choice was likely Gaudreau's after he underperformed for two straight seasons, and I am sure his agent advised him accordingly. Trading Gaudrea last summer would have given us a very underwhelming return for the same reasons Gaudreau didn't sign a contract last year. So, today we sit here and wait for JG to hopefully re-sign... Or in an alternate reality, he played for Team X last year and some other fanbase is waiting to see if he'll sign... while we got to watch our former star winger go off for 115 pts somewhere else... But I'm sure the underpayment we got for him in the summer would have felt great and none of the same posters would still be calling for Tre to be fired.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by VilleN

At what point could the GM have forced Gaudreau to sign a contract? Why on earth would Gaudreau have signed last year after two of his poorest seasons? And why would Tre have traded him last year of Johnny indicated that he wanted to stay in Calgary? I don't understand what you think could have been done.

It's not what could have, it's what should have been done. What should have been done is a deal was hammered out last summer before Gaudreau's limited NTC kicked in. If a deal was not made by then Gaudreau should have been traded for other assets. Simple as that. You maintain control of your team and never relegate that control to a player who has no long-term investment in the club or business. EVER! But this is the Flames way. They did it with Iginla and they repeated the same error with Gaudreau. Now they are doing it with Tkachuk. In business you control what you can control or you risk losing control over the very business you are trying to run. Treliving lost control over this enterprise and we are at a crossroads we never should have arrived at.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by VilleN

You don't know that they 'chose' not to sign Gaudreau last summer. I think the choice was likely Gaudreau's after he underperformed for two straight seasons, and I am sure his agent advised him accordingly. Trading Gaudrea last summer would have given us a very underwhelming return for the same reasons Gaudreau didn't sign a contract last year. So, today we sit here and wait for JG to hopefully re-sign... Or in an alternate reality, he played for Team X last year and some other fanbase is waiting to see if he'll sign... while we got to watch our former star winger go off for 115 pts somewhere else... But I'm sure the underpayment we got for him in the summer would have felt great and none of the same posters would still be calling for Tre to be fired.

It is my understanding that the Flames were close to coming to an agreement with Gaudreau just prior to the start of the season, then they ran out of time, and Johnny's camp cut off discussions once the season began.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm shocked this situation was allowed to get to this point.

You seem easily shocked. Maybe you don't have the constitution for this.

[Royle9]

Today pits the finale between optimism and pessimism.
The good news is we’ll all know today.

This has been a terrible ride thus far.
May god have mercy on our souls today.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's not what could have, it's what should have been done. What should have been done is a deal was hammered out last summer before Gaudreau's limited NTC kicked in. If a deal was not made by then Gaudreau should have been traded for other assets. Simple as that. You maintain control of your team and never relegate that control to a player who has no long-term investment in the club or business. EVER! But this is the Flames way. They did it with Iginla and they repeated the same error with Gaudreau. Now they are doing it with Tkachuk. In business you control what you can control or you risk losing control over the very business you are trying to run. Treliving lost control over this enterprise and we are at a crossroads we never should have arrived at.

It's a process....

[bax]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's not what could have, it's what should have been done. What should have been done is a deal was hammered out last summer before Gaudreau's limited NTC kicked in. If a deal was not made by then Gaudreau should have been traded for other assets. Simple as that. You maintain control of your team and never relegate that control to a player who has no long-term investment in the club or business. EVER! But this is the Flames way. They did it with Iginla and they repeated the same error with Gaudreau. Now they are doing it with Tkachuk. In business you control what you can control or you risk losing control over the very business you are trying to run. Treliving lost control over this enterprise and we are at a crossroads we never should have arrived at.

A fantastic season + another summer to negotiate a long term deal is more valuable than a first and a couple random prospects.

Sports are a unique business. There is a lot more to it than asset management.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

A counter point to signing JG.........something to chew on



Discuss.


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl...c8528cfc1e403f

I kind of disagree. Guadreau is every bit as important to the Flames as McDavid or Draisaitl is in Edmonton. His linemates have flourished because he distributes them the puck and creates opportunities to score. The Flames have depth scoring because they are a team full of shooters but not enough puck distributors as Johnny is by far the best puck distributor on the team that essentially stirs the drink. The team would be a lot better off losing a shooter or two while retaining Gaudreau's transition game and playmaking abilities.

[McG]

630 am and welcome 53 guests and spiders.

No reason whatsoever but I think that this gets done today. The wedding hangover is gone.

I was thinking just under 8 * 11 but in true deadline fashion I’m adding some money to get to 8*11.

Flames should not allow JG to walk for the cost of one or two minimum nhl contracts.

Not going to derail the thread but for me the flaw is not that the flames are in a salary negotiation, it is that we won our own version of the lottery by having a 4th round pick become the player that we are fretting about in this thread. That’s not a normal thing. At the same time, we did not get other draft picks over the years to be anywhere near JG, except MT (and SM for a short period of time). That’s the problem. But that topic is for another thread.

I’m sure going into today with mixed expectations though.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's not what could have, it's what should have been done. What should have been done is a deal was hammered out last summer before Gaudreau's limited NTC kicked in. If a deal was not made by then Gaudreau should have been traded for other assets. Simple as that. You maintain control of your team and never relegate that control to a player who has no long-term investment in the club or business. EVER! But this is the Flames way. They did it with Iginla and they repeated the same error with Gaudreau. Now they are doing it with Tkachuk. In business you control what you can control or you risk losing control over the very business you are trying to run. Treliving lost control over this enterprise and we are at a crossroads we never should have arrived at.

And then we miss out on last season as a contender in order to avoid a stressful few weeks... and if he signs... then all we gained was not being in a stressful situation.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's not what could have, it's what should have been done. What should have been done is a deal was hammered out last summer before Gaudreau's limited NTC kicked in. If a deal was not made by then Gaudreau should have been traded for other assets. Simple as that. You maintain control of your team and never relegate that control to a player who has no long-term investment in the club or business. EVER! But this is the Flames way. They did it with Iginla and they repeated the same error with Gaudreau. Now they are doing it with Tkachuk. In business you control what you can control or you risk losing control over the very business you are trying to run. Treliving lost control over this enterprise and we are at a crossroads we never should have arrived at.

No, that is not correct and is evidenced by the fact that pending UFAs take it to the wire every season. Are all these teams poorly managed? Colorado almost lost Landeskog - could you have done better? Personally, I prefer the reality we live in right now - where Gaudreau was not traded, decided not to sign and bet on himself. Rather than getting a bunch of magic beans for 1 year of a ~ppg undersized left winger, we got to watch Gaudreau have one of the greatest seasons in recent Flames history, and now he's going to get paid as such. I don't think that was an accident on his part.

Tre didn't give up control, he made a choice - you think trading Gaudreau last summer was the right move. Good for you, it was an option. I think the value we got from him last season, plus now having the chance to lock him up long term is the better outcome. The GM and the Flames organization agree with me.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

It is my understanding that the Flames were close to coming to an agreement with Gaudreau just prior to the start of the season, then they ran out of time, and Johnny's camp cut off discussions once the season began.

I doubt this was true - if they were that close they would have finished negotiations and signed. IMO it is fairly obvious Gaudreau didn't want to sign at that time - because as I have stated before his value was very low, and playing another season likely would not have decreased his value (unless he completely imploded or was injured), so he probably bet on himself.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I doubt this was true - if they were that close they would have finished negotiations and signed. IMO it is fairly obvious Gaudreau didn't want to sign at that time - because as I have stated before his value was very low, and playing another season likely would not have decreased his value (unless he completely imploded or was injured), so he probably bet on himself.

It's very possible you're right.

And I forgot who said this in the first place. Does anyone remember?