Montoyo, I've said since day 1, has always been a caretaker manager until the team got good or needed to go to the next level.
Players who want the team to get to the next level often need a manager who they trust has been there and lead a team to that next level. Same goes with sports like hockey. Charlie simply hasn't.
Watching these last 3 games, Blue Jays have just done a slow burn and need something from their manager (an ejection, some show of emotion) otherwise they feel further alienated that he doesn't know what the problem is and how to fix it.
Whether last year was an aberation or not, and whether or not this team is as good as it is or could be is up for debate, but regardless this team should not be languishing around .500 at the All Star break. There should be a push for adding some bodies in the weeks afterwards, but it's tough to figure out where to begin with that given the state of the team at this minute and who's slumping and who's just not good enough. They should be there like last year's but aren't.
Atkins and Shapiro have to figure out in the upcoming days if they let Charlie have the keys to try and turn the ship around, then figure what support they give him at the deadline. If they don't make the playoffs he's gone and the season of development is wasted. Will he go into next season either way with 1 year left on a contract? Not likely (just as happened this year) so he's gone at the end of the season if they don't make it, but do you see them renewing him for another two years in November?
Or, make a change at the All Star break and push this roster to have a solid last half of the year starting fresh with a different voice pushing them the rest of this year and next.
Last edited by browna; 07-10-2022 at 09:46 PM.
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Montoyo, I've said since day 1, has always been a caretaker manager until the team got good or needed to go to the next level.
Yep, that's why they should have just let his initial contract expire and move on instead of keeping on picking up the option before the season even starts like he's a hot commodity. I remember being pretty stunned when they picked it up the first time and disgusted the next.
For a young team who cares more about development than winning he's fine. But the Blue Jays are past that now and it's time to move onto a manager the players respect but isn't trying to be their buddy. It's pretty annoying as a fan seeing them laughing and joking when getting blown out. You can't get too low but you need to take things serious.
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They should not have picked up Montoyos option that early. When I saw him take out Shoemaker in the playoff game I knew he didn't know how to think the game or have any feel for it.
You say this team should not be languishing around .500 but really that's what they are. I said it at the beginning of the thread, you all have proof, it's the basis for my bet with jayswin, the Jays will be around 45-45 at the break and Montoyo should be fired.
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They should not have picked up Montoyos option that early. When I saw him take out Shoemaker in the playoff game I knew he didn't know how to think the game or have any feel for it.
You say this team should not be languishing around .500 but really that's what they are. I said it at the beginning of the thread, you all have proof, it's the basis for my bet with jayswin, the Jays will be around 45-45 at the break and Montoyo should be fired.
Nah I understand picking up the option. Its hard to fire him when they lost out on the playoffs by an eye lash and a feel good story. Sort of like when Treliving had to keep Hartley when he won the Jack Adams. They still could've let him go though and probably should've but it would've looked bad.
But, he's paid relative peanuts in the Rogers conglomerate and in comparison to the roster and other managers, so there is no real reason to give him too much rope. If he gets paid for 1.5 more seasons to not manage it's not going to break the bank vs the risk of throwing this season into the garbage at this point and he's not going to get an extension (nor be a lame duck manager) in the offseason unless they get to the ALCS..
Pitching isn't there outside of Manoah, hitters relatively turn into pumpkins at inopportune times. Part of the development process but this team needs to take the next step and it's not in Montoyos wheelhouse IMO.
Injuries and a lack of pitching depth have been the biggest issue in recent weeks, and the offense has not really come through to support the lack of pitching. They scored 3 runs or less for several games in a row. You can't force better performance when guys are scuffling or not putting it all together. Keeping them loose is exactly what you want to do when things aren't going well.
However, I do think strategy and game plan are lacking at times, and that's on him. Fundamentals seem to be lost on some of these guys too. A team that plays with a clear focus on doing certain things well often become better than the sum of their parts. Think of what Boston does and you have an idea of how you can be a great team without a ton of elite talent.
In my mind, you give Montoya until the end of July to turn it around. If they're still just 4 or 5 games above .500, you give him the axe.
The problem is, who else is out there? My instinct is Joe Maddon but he did such a terrible job in Anaheim that I don't know if he can get the job done with this team.
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"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
The hitting with RISP problem that plagued this team earlier in the season has come back.
They just got swept in a 4 game series where they outhit the Mariners in every game but one, and in that game they tied them in hits at 13 a piece.....lost 8 to 3.
So ####ing frustrating
It's always something different...
A boneheaded defensive play
A boneheaded baserunning error
Anti clutch hitting
Strike out with the bases loaded
Hit a dinger with the bases empty
Reliever A blows it tonight, reliever B and C are strong
Next game reliever B blows it and reliever A and C are strong, and on and on and on
Last edited by Roof-Daddy; 07-11-2022 at 07:06 AM.
if you're hitting a lot of dingers with nobody on maybe your lineup is wrong.
Why does Bichette have to hit 2nd? He's hitting home runs and driving in runs. Why must he hit 2nd? More him down to 5 or 6. Teoscar and Lourdis on on fire, base hit after base hit. Lourdis is up to .295 BA. Why are they hitting 5th and 6th, sometimes 6th and 7th? They keep getting on only for Chapman to strike out. Plus Teoscar and Lourdis can run, they can steal bases.
1. How do you fix the baserunning low IQ plays? I have no idea, but if you can't do that as a manager, then what are you good for?
2. Bichette should absolutely not be batting second. Suck it up buttercup, you're the one that has always refused to change your approach.
3. Trade a corner infielder.
4. Tell the guys to learn english or something so that we don't have to hire a spanish speaking manager if a better option is available.
How much blame can you put on the big league manager for bad defense or baserunning? Some organizations make those things a priority at every level so that it’s not an issue at the big league level.
Any way this is the right time of year to scuffle. Lots of time to right the ship and a team like Seattle certainly will flame out.
How much blame can you put on the big league manager for bad defense or baserunning? Some organizations make those things a priority at every level so that it’s not an issue at the big league level.
Any way this is the right time of year to scuffle. Lots of time to right the ship and a team like Seattle certainly will flame out.
It's accountability. They #### up on the bases and then yuk it up in the dugout. Instead of having schedule days off for nothing, chew out or bench players for mistakes.
But Charlie is not a baseball guy. He doesn't start runners or get players to hit situationally. Just go up there and hack and hopefully you win games like the one in Oakland, 2 solo homers to 1.
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I was working so didn't catch the game, but am I to understand Castillo got the start, pitched well, got yanked early and they lost?
God damnit Charlie. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Not directly. Phelps should have gotten out of the inning unscathed if not for Vladdy's suspect glove. But still, a starter dealing (retired 13 out of 14 batters) in the 5th inning, with 4-1 lead, on 60 pitchers, and gives up 2 soft singles with one out should not be taken out. Now your bullpen has to come in high leverage (2 on 1 out) and has to get 14 outs.
In the top of the 6th the exact same thing happened to the Mariners (2 on one out) and their starter pitched out of it on 100 pitches. Now their bullpen only has to get 9 outs in clean innings.
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Castillo had pitched 3 innings just 3 days earlier so they weren't going to leave him in much longer anyways.
Also, that's the 2nd time a ball has gone through Vladdy's glove this season. Once can be passed off as unfortunate, twice and you have to start wondering if it's incompetence.
