Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Anyone expecting this not to go down to the wire have been unnecessarily fooling themselves. If he wants 8 years here it’ll come just before free agency opens on Wednesday. If he’s not bothered with 8, he’s the #1 UFA target and this will go well beyond Wednesday with other teams adding their negotiations into the mix.

I think if he wants 8 years it has to happen 24hrs before free agency deadline? I could be wrong though.

[Moneyhands23]

Here is a time line of stuff for the next few days

https://mobile.twitter.com/frank_ser...widget%3DTweet

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NHL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NHL</a> Critical Dates<br>Mon. July 11, 5pm ET: Qualifying offers due to RFAs.<br>Tues. July 12: RFAs can be contacted for off. sheet discussion.<br>Tues. 5pm: 1st buyout window closes.<br>Tues. 11:59pm: UFAs lose ability to re-sign for 8 yrs.<br>Wed. July 13, 12noon: UFA/RFA signing period opens.</p>&mdash; Frank Seravalli (@frank_seravalli) <a href="https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1546176277262045184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NHL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NHL</a> Critical Dates<br>Mon. July 11, 5pm ET: Qualifying offers due to RFAs.<br>Tues. July 12: RFAs can be contacted for off. sheet discussion.<br>Tues. 5pm: 1st buyout window closes.<br>Tues. 11:59pm: UFAs lose ability to re-sign for 8 yrs.<br>Wed. July 13, 12noon: UFA/RFA signing period opens.</p>&mdash; Frank Seravalli (@frank_seravalli) <a href="https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1546176277262045184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well #### I boned that all up

[Vinny01]

The fact this isn’t likely going to be done until Tuesday if at all really hamstrings the team moving into free agency. I think they are very exposed on Mangiapane to an offer sheet.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The fact this isn’t likely going to be done until Tuesday if at all really hamstrings the team moving into free agency. I think they are very exposed on Mangiapane to an offer sheet.

If someone goes and offers mang a big deal then you take the picks and cap space I guess.

I wonder what kind of money would be on the table for him

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The fact this isn’t likely going to be done until Tuesday if at all really hamstrings the team moving into free agency. I think they are very exposed on Mangiapane to an offer sheet.

An offer sheet for Mangiapane is probably best case scenario for the Flames. They can choose to keep him at his market value set by the offer or take the picks.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

If someone goes and offers mang a big deal then you take the picks and cap space I guess.

I wonder what kind of money would be on the table for him

I can see 6 years 5 mil per, or something close to that.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

An offer sheet for Mangiapane is probably best case scenario for the Flames. They can choose to keep him at his market value set by the offer or take the picks.

Yep. If we aren’t matching it’s likely because we’ve signed both Tkachuk and Gaudreau. Compensation would be a first and a third for the offer sheet required to get Mangiapane to sign.

[Roof-Daddy]

Hopefully a non playoff team offer sheets Mangiapane.

Give us a Bedard lottery ticket.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

I can see 6 years 5 mil per, or something close to that.

Flames would likely accept that offer and keep the player. That’s good value for what he brings.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Possible but really hard to say. The only ownership mandate that’s been consistent over the decades is to make the playoffs. I just think Treliving loves his guys and is too attached. Part of the reason I’d like a new GM is for a fresh perspective that isn’t attached to any players in the organization.

He's been willing to move big names. Including deals that have allegedly fallen through. I don't see much evidence of what you describe.

[Vinny01]

For an offer sheet to work it needs to be painful so I could see a team going to $6.3M which is the 1st+3rd compensation. Depending which team it could be a good deal for the Flames but a tough loss to the team. As long as Johnny signs it will be worth it

[dissentowner]

I think we see Gaudreau deal come down the pipe tmrw. Might be Tuesday if the agreement on structure and clauses takes a bit. No chance he makes it to Wednesday.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

I think if he wants 8 years it has to happen 24hrs before free agency deadline? I could be wrong though.

Ok, looks like 12 hours less of waiting for an 8 year signing. Doesn’t guarantee it gets released to the public at 10pm Tuesday though.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He's been willing to move big names. Including deals that have allegedly fallen through. I don't see much evidence of what you describe.

What difficult decisions has he made as GM? Trading Bennett? Even at that you can argue he waited too long. Didn’t move Giordano at the trade deadline in a season they were out of the playoffs. Let him go for nothing in the expansion draft. Waited too long with the Gaudreau situation. If he was hell bent on keeping the player he should have tried harder to lock him up prior to the 11th hour. Tkachuk will come down to the end.

I feel he’s similar to the Jets GM in a lot of ways. Build a solid roster over the years that has been wasted on mediocre coaching. One difference is that he never loses assets for nothing. He’s done a fantastic job of being proactive and recouping assets for players rather than let them walk in free agency. They always seem to have young players in the pipeline filling key roles because of the trade returns for assets. He would have never put his team in the situation the Flames find themselves in with Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane.

[Swayze11]

I’m hoping the following gif happened at Monnys wedding yesterday:

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There are things out of Treliving's control but the current situation is all on him.

I just think that this is a totally unrealistic perspective of the situation that doesn't factor into consideration several significant contributing factors. Presumably, there was an option heading into last summer to trade Gaudreau before his trade protection kicked in, but this assumes 1) that this is something either side wanted, and 2) that there were teams willing to move pieces of value to acquire him. How did discussions between Gaudreau and the Flames go last summer? What were his plans long term? Did he have any interest at all in moving on, and where to? Did he express any level of commitment to the Flames? Coming off of two(!) down-seasons, what did the framework of an extension look like? How much were the Flames willing to offer, and what was he willing to accept? Did his own value prompt him to delay signing until after this year? What did the trade market look like? Coming off of a couple poor seasons, were there many teams interested in the diminutive winger with middling playoff success? Were other teams less interested in acquiring Gaudreau as a result?

We don't know the answer to any of these questions, and without a clearer picture of what the market looked like from the inside, then we simply cannot know whether there were any missed opportunities that the Flames will now pay for as a result. You can make guesses about who is to blame, but in the end these all remain just guesses until we get some kind of clarity about how negotiations have transpired over the past year.

He went all-in this season and I get it. They didn't advance past the 2nd round and there's a price to be paid on going all-in and failing. I just think there's been too many failures and miscalculations over his tenure. He's built a good roster but he's been unable to make moves to put it over the top and as one of the longest tenured GMs in the league yet none of his teams have advanced past the 2nd round. He would be fired in any other market outside of Winnipeg for those results and he's lucky that Flames fans in general have pretty low expectations given how bad the organization has been over the last 3 decades.

I have said this several times before, but I continue to think that most NHL GMs are not given enough time to do their job properly. Some of the more recently successful managers are those who have been in their current position for a long time. Joe Sakic is going on nine years in Colorado. Doug Armstrong has been in charge in St. Louis for over fourteen. Julien Brisbois has been on the job for only four years, but that is effectively the same regime that has been in place since 2010 when Yzerman arrived in Tampa. I, for one, am happy that Flames ownership is not so reactionary, and that Treliving is being afforded the latitude and time to do his work. Yes, he has made mistakes—all GMs do. But on balance, he has built a team that continues to improve, has won two Division championships, and a couple of playoff rounds. I like the way he goes about his business, and it seems that the owners do as well—and not because they are only interested in the bottom line, but because at the heart of it they are fans who want to win.


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[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

I’m hoping the following gif happened at Monnys wedding yesterday:

I knew once he was at Mony's wedding we were not hearing boo this weekend. He probably told his agent to hammer it out Monday.

[Flamesfan05]

Don’t know why people are upset even to discuss fire Treliving if Johnny walks

Without Johnny, it’s basically the end of the core and rebuild. Do you really want to go through a rebuild width the same GM that had no playoffs success?

[chedder]

If there's any truth to the idea that Johnny would have signed long term last summer then that's a fail on Treliving unless the player was asking for 10 plus after a disappointing season. And, I know, this is all hindsight.

Also, we likely wouldn't have got 115 point Johnny if he already had his huge payday.

Many factors have got us to this point. At the end of the day, it all comes down to this Tuesday. If Johnny walks I'd give Treliving the benefit of the doubt if he replaces 75% of Johnny's points with someone really good and signs Chucky long term or trades him for a real return. Otherwise, he should hit the dirt.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Don’t know why people are upset even to discuss fire Treliving if Johnny walks

Without Johnny, it’s basically the end of the core and rebuild.

Well, no. It is not.

Do you really want to go through a rebuild width the same GM that had no playoffs success?

I obviously have no problem at all with that prospect, but "no playoff success" is a bit of an exaggeration.

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