Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Goriders

It’s a negotiation. Why would he show his cards.

If Gaudreau has decided to sign elsewhere, then he has no reason to negotiate with the Flames. What would be the point?

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[Flamesfan05]

Why not. Being a Flames fan, pain is part of the process. Should learn how to deal with it by now.

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Why not. Being a Flames fan, pain is part of the process. Should learn how to deal with it by now.

Hopefully you do learn how to deal with it, one day

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

What are the chances that if Gaudreau doesn't want to be here, he'll let the Flames put together a sign and trade to get something meaningful in return? That 8th year has to be worth something to Jersey/Philly, right?

He doesn't owe the Flames anything, but it would be a lot cooler if he did.

I'm sure it's hard to pin down the exact breaking point, but I think most GMs/owners would rather prefer 7 years over 8 even if the AAV is an extra $500-750k. Certainly there are exceptions, but for guys signing in their late 20s and teams that aren't in now or never mode like PIT.

Originally Posted by saillias

Lebrun has reported this twice in the Athletic (that Seattle would offer him a contract if he got to free agency). I'm not really sure what the point is even bringing that up. The worst or second worst team in the west, an expansion team, not an anomaly like Vegas that gets good right away but a standard bad one, who seems to have made questionable choices in coaching, roster and management frankly. Anything that is inconvenient about Calgary to Gaudreau like travel or distance to family is the same if not worse there. If you bring up Seattle may as well add Arizona, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Columbus to the mix. He could technically sign anywhere I guess!

It isn't something to choose a franchise over, but there is a massive difference between a 5hr direct flight from PHI to SEA vs. having to connect and clear customs. Ultimately it's probably a difference of one ~10 day trip a year for each set of in-laws vs. two or three ~5 day trips. The latter scenario is a lot more desirable for most people!

As for Johnny's professional travel, I would be interested in a more detailed analysis of travel trends for teams in different regions (beyond the total mileage calculation we typically see which isn't necessarily that meaningful). I would guess that western teams tend to have longer duration road trips, but fewer 1-2 game trips? It would be interesting to know how many nights you're spending away from your own bed.

[Cole436]

This thread is a circle of hell in of itself.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If Gaudreau has decided to sign elsewhere, then he has no reason to negotiate with the Flames. What would be the point?

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If I decide I want a different job, it's probably not smart to tell my current employer until I've got an alternative offer on the table (in which case I may be able to drive up my price for both places)

Obviously Johnny's situation is a lot different, but there is no benefit to him to close the door on the Flames.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If Gaudreau has decided to sign elsewhere, then he has no reason to negotiate with the Flames. What would be the point?

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Because free agency hasn't officially started, and he doesn't have official offers in front of him to sign.

If he wanted to be here as his number one choice, he likely would have signed already. I highly doubt this is about money at this point. The Flames have zero leverage and desperately need him.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If Gaudreau has decided to sign elsewhere, then he has no reason to negotiate with the Flames. What would be the point?

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Leverage.

Treliving already knows he’s not going to accept $9.5 million. You don’t lead with your final offer.

It’s a dance. It’s not fun or for the weak at heart. If you’re the latter stop paying attention and tune in on the 13th. That’s when he’s going to sign. It might not be with the Flames.

If he doesn’t sign with the Flames they will sign someone else and life will go on.

[JohnnyB]

I don't really get why Treliving didn't just allow other teams to talk with Johnny early, unless he felt negotiations were going well. If negotiations were going poorly it would make sense to have teams talk with him and to then improve options for trading his rights.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

If I decide I want a different job, it's probably not smart to tell my current employer until I've got an alternative offer on the table (in which case I may be able to drive up my price for both places)

Obviously Johnny's situation is a lot different, but there is no benefit to him to close the door on the Flames.

Pretty weak comparison. Johnny knows he will have a huge market regardless so there is no reason to string the Flames along unless he genuinely wants to stay. He is the biggest fish in the pond and one of the potential biggest players to hit free agency in a long time. He was considered a top 4 player in the league this year so there will be double digit teams trying to get something done with him.

[getbak]

"There's a process to it."

https://twitter.com/user/status/1545513053893976064

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't really get why Treliving didn't just allow other teams to talk with Johnny early, unless he felt negotiations were going well. If negotiations were going poorly it would make sense to have teams talk with him and to then improve options for trading his rights.

I have thought the same thing but I think it is a game of high risk poker. You are letting a team sell Johnny on their city/situation. Outside of the 8 years and history with the player the only other advantage Treliving has today is exclusive negotiating rights. From his comments today he knew this was going to come down to the wire. I don’t think we hear about a deal until Tuesday if it happens.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Pretty weak comparison. Johnny knows he will have a huge market regardless so there is no reason to string the Flames along unless he genuinely wants to stay. He is the biggest fish in the pond and one of the potential biggest players to hit free agency in a long time. He was considered a top 4 player in the league this year so there will be double digit teams trying to get something done with him.

Is it stringing them along though? Until he officially knows what his options are, why would he close any door? Unless of course he is 100% certain he wants to play anywhere else but here. But even if it's a 25% chance in his mind he returns, I doubt he's going to close that door until he officially sees what else is out there.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Because free agency hasn't officially started, and he doesn't have official offers in front of him to sign.



If he wanted to be here as his number one choice, he likely would have signed already. I highly doubt this is about money at this point. The Flames have zero leverage and desperately need him.

But that is a different scenario than what I was specifically addressing, which was that Gaudreau had already decided under no uncertain terms that he was not playing in Calgary next year. If this was the case, then he would have no reason to negotiate with the Flames.

I think it is probably obvious at this point that he does in fact want to play in Calgary. It may not be his first choice, but it sure seems like he is still keen to see if something with the Flames can be worked out. I see things quite differently than you do: Gaudreau is using his leverage to get the best deal he can, which is precisely why he has not signed already, even if the Flames are his first choice. It makes good sense for him to wait until 13 July, regardless of wherever he would like to play, Calgary included.


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[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Is it stringing them along though? Until he officially knows what his options are, why would he close any door? Unless of course he is 100% certain he wants to play anywhere else but here. But even if it's a 25% chance in his mind he returns, I doubt he's going to close that door until he officially sees what else is out there.

I think he clearly does think Calgary is an option. If he was dead set on leaving he would inform the team. He wouldn’t keep them as an option to drive up the price elsewhere because he will have a huge market regardless. It will just suck if he doesn’t decide he wants to leave Calgary until the market opens

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think he clearly does think Calgary is an option. If he was dead set on leaving he would inform the team. He wouldn’t keep them as an option to drive up the price elsewhere because he will have a huge market regardless. It will just suck if he doesn’t decide he wants to leave Calgary until the market opens

Furthermore, he doesn't even need an offer from Calgary to drive up the price. He is going to get multiple, massive offers if he is still unsigned by Wednesday.

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[tkflames]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1545480101365784579

The answer none of us want to hear is that letting this run its course is actually the best play. This is not the draft to put your eggs in.

If you can't sign Gaudreau, let him walk, sell Chucky for a ransom, load up in the summer on high value players tbat you can trade at the deadline while signing Mangiapane and Kylington and Gudbranson to reasonable deals.

Sell Tofoli, Lucic and others at the deadline.

Draft lots in 23', have massive cap space from Monahan and Lucic coming off the books and reload.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Leverage.

Treliving already knows he’s not going to accept $9.5 million. You don’t lead with your final offer.

It’s a dance. It’s not fun or for the weak at heart. If you’re the latter stop paying attention and tune in on the 13th. That’s when he’s going to sign. It might not be with the Flames.

There is really no set rules in negotiations. It depends entirely on the situation.

You may lead with your one and only offer.

When Joey Votto signed with the areas long term, they offered him a 10 year contract at $250M. He said “thank you, and I’ll let you know tomorrow “.

The next day he accepted. He knew the Reds had made the largest offer they could.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Another week of this!

Can't wait for it to be over and done..

[MrMike]

This has to be the strangest off season. Our team could be headed in two completely different directions so easily.