Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sec214

No! I love Johnny and don’t want him to leave but at this point I’ve resided to the fact I PERSONALLY believe he is going home and he will only stay in Calgary for a stupid over payment and I don’t want my team to do that. Regardless of how good he is…

That's been my position as well. Johnny is the first player whose jersey I have owned since Lanny, so that should tell you how much I like the kid. But there is a line in the sand that needs to be drawn. Unless the team can turn Tkachuk into a couple of cost-controlled players that can help almost immediately an over-pay could be crippling in the future. I still want to see Johnny signed.

The perfect day would be Gaudreau signs an extension this afternoon and Tkachuk is traded to New Jersey for Holtz and the #2. Flames come home from the draft with Gaudreau locked in, a future #1 RW, and a future #1 center with the draft pick. Gives room to sign Mangiapane and maintain some depth, especially if they can dump Lucic and LTIRetire Monahan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well Cammaleri does not even belong with those other three. Bure and Kariya basically left the game because of injuries (Bure had knee and neck problems and Kariya had concussion issues). And Savard basically played in an era when nobody really played past 35. People were shocked that someone as old as Lanny could still be on a Cup winning team at 35.

I will concede that if Johnny gets career ending injuries like Bure and Kariya he will likely not be a significant contributor past the age of 35.

Well, of course people retire because they physically can't do it. Or else they wouldn't retire. And small players who start to slow down get beat up.

But OK, look at Perry - still a decent player but got bought out and no one signed him until he took league min.

Not sure why Cammaleri doesn't belong. I'm not comparing ability - I'm comparing smallish players and when they retired. More modern examples - look at Zetterberg. 36. Simon Gagne. 35.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Call me crazy, but I'm fine paying an extra $1M over "fair" to our franchise player in his prime (not to mention someone well on their way to becoming one of the best Flames' forwards in history).

Seems better than the alternative of... nothing.

Keeping Johnny also has implications for keeping Tkachuk and attracting other talents who want to win.

These players also sell tickets and a lot of jerseys.
This is also important when working towards getting a new arena deal.

The ripple effect of this $1 million is enormous for the franchise.

[Johnny Makarov]

Please have the clause of a lifetime ban for Eric Francis from the Dome in there! PLEASE!

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Anyone who says let him leave if it's $11mil/per hasn't watched the Flames the past 4 years play.

and look at sec214 trying to save face... lol

Saving face? Idgaf about saving face, I think my messaging has been pretty clear in this thread.

• Love Johnny but I think he's going home
  He will only stay for a major overpayment
  Total Sum of money Calgary can offer vs what's in the market.

I'm in the tear it down and rebuild camp if Johnny walks. He stirs the drink for the org currently.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Keeping Johnny also has implications for keeping Tkachuk and attracting other talents who want to win.

These players also sell tickets and a lot of jerseys.
This is also important when working towards getting a new arena deal.

The ripple effect of this $1 million is enormous for the franchise.

Well, in more ways than one. The cap is only so big.

I'm happy overpaying JG a tad even if Tkachuk goes, because I think he's more easily replaced. And the return would compensate for the loss to some degree.

[PeteMoss]

This thread is good example of why the agent and the GM are in the job they are in.

The agent sits quiet for a long time - people in this thread get antsy and say the GM should up the offer. If Treliving and the Flames feel the same way - the agent is doing his job well.

If they now countered at a high value - they've both given themselves space to meet somewhere in the middle and everyone goes home happy.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Saving face? Idgaf about saving face, I think my messaging has been pretty clear in this thread.

• Love Johnny but I think he's going home
  He will only stay for a major overpayment
  Total Sum of money Calgary can offer vs what's in the market.

I'm in the tear it down and rebuild camp if Johnny walks. He stirs the drink for the org currently.

ummm yeah... i guess your cat posted this...

Originally Posted by Sec214 View Post

Anywhere but the Calgary Flames at this point. I hope I eat a lot of crow but this boy gone gone gone

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

I have it on good authority that Gaudreau's camp has countered today, however at closer to $11MM/year. That's all I will say.

I choose to believe in Rasta.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

ummm yeah... i guess your cat posted this...

Rabbit actually but Yes I believe he is gone gone gone.

"I HOPE I EAT A LOT OF CROW"

Pretty clear message bud.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

$11M isn't a $1M overpayment. It's right in the ballpark of his peer group. A "greedy" counter offer would have been north of $12M. If $11M is indeed the counter, Gaudreau/Gross are being fair in this negotiation.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

This thread is good example of why the agent and the GM are in the job they are in.

The agent sits quiet for a long time - people in this thread get antsy and say the GM should up the offer. If Treliving and the Flames feel the same way - the agent is doing his job well.

If they now countered at a high value - they've both given themselves space to meet somewhere in the middle and everyone goes home happy.

See also Treliving saying "well, we made an offer but they haven't replied". Puts public pressure on them to at least say no, and more likely counter .

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That's been my position as well. Johnny is the first player whose jersey I have owned since Lanny, so that should tell you how much I like the kid. But there is a line in the sand that needs to be drawn. Unless the team can turn Tkachuk into a couple of cost-controlled players that can help almost immediately an over-pay could be crippling in the future. I still want to see Johnny signed.

The perfect day would be Gaudreau signs an extension this afternoon and Tkachuk is traded to New Jersey for Holtz and the #2. Flames come home from the draft with Gaudreau locked in, a future #1 RW, and a future #1 center with the draft pick. Gives room to sign Mangiapane and maintain some depth, especially if they can dump Lucic and LTIRetire Monahan.

I’m out of thanks, but this is the way.

[VilleN]

Gaudreau is in his prime now - why would we be making future based trades for Tkachuk?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, of course people retire because they physically can't do it. Or else they wouldn't retire. And small players who start to slow down get beat up.

But OK, look at Perry - still a decent player but got bought out and no one signed him until he took league min.

Not sure why Cammaleri doesn't belong. I'm not comparing ability - I'm comparing smallish players and when they retired. More modern examples - look at Zetterberg. 36. Simon Gagne. 35.

I would include Burnaby Joe’s 100 point season at age 37 in this slim group.
Brett Hull’s three 30+ goal seasons past the age of 35
Teemu Selanne’s 80 point season at the age of 40
Mark Recchi continued to produce at age 36 and 37
Ron Francis, Joe Mullen, Daniel Alfredsson. Lots of small guys produce past the age of 35

What there certainly isn’t is a statistical difference that say bigger produce more last 35. If anything I would say as a percentage of the total, guys under 6 feet are more likely to stay productive than guys above 6 feet.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Gaudreau is in his prime now - why would we be making future based trades for Tkachuk?

That trade helps us now, and in the future-plus, cap space.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Gaudreau is in his prime now - why would we be making future based trades for Tkachuk?

Affording the depth to take the next step?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I would include Burnaby Joe’s 100 point season at age 37 in this slim group.
Brett Hull’s three 30+ goal seasons past the age of 35
Teemu Selanne’s 80 point season at the age of 40
Mark Recchi continued to produce at age 36 and 37
Ron Francis, Joe Mullen, Daniel Alfredsson. Lots of small guys produce past the age of 35

What there certainly isn’t is a statistical difference that say bigger produce more last 35. If anything I would say as a percentage of the total, guys under 6 feet are more likely to stay productive than guys above 6 feet.

6 isn't "lots". Currently there are 16 or so 35+ contracts. Of those 6 are over $2M. TBF free agency will add a few contracts. But there are only 28 UFAs over 35 and of those, Malkin, Fleury, Bergeron and maybe Stastny will get significant contracts.

Hell Kessel is 34 and no one is busting down his door this off season I bet.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

I have it on good authority that Gaudreau's camp has countered today, however at closer to $11MM/year. That's all I will say.

Has anyone verified who the "good authority" is? Not throwing shade, just wondering how many grains of salt I should be taking this with.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The perfect day would be Gaudreau signs an extension this afternoon and Tkachuk is traded to New Jersey for Holtz and the #2. Flames come home from the draft with Gaudreau locked in, a future #1 RW, and a future #1 center with the draft pick. Gives room to sign Mangiapane and maintain some depth, especially if they can dump Lucic and LTIRetire Monahan.

The perfect day would be MT, JG, and Mang signed, Lucic, Monny, Backlund, Toffoli and Coleman all traded and use the 25 million in cap savings plus all the assets you receive to build a proper 2nd and 3rd line