Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I’m sure he’d have put pen to paper on 8x12.

Thats alot of dough for not being past the second round. I mean this playoff year looked a bit better but cripes.

[FanIn80]

All I know is, judging by some of the reactions here, we just might be the first team in the history of pro sports to ever have to sign two free agent superstars in one offseason

[Aarongavey]

I really hope that if they end up losing both guys and have to go into a quasi rebuild they commit term to any your player, even if it looks like it costs more than you should pay in the short term. The ROI on those bets vastly outweighs the ROI on UFA’s as a general rule. Spend most of your money locking down your RFA’s long term and if you have any money left over get some UFA’s (best if they are on short term contracts).

[Harry Lime]

Tkachuk accepting his QO is a big loss for the Flames. It makes him a rental, and his trade value drops accordingly.

[Caboose]

I don't get the hysteria. Johnny's agent and Treliving are using good ol' negotiating tactics. Neither one is going to immediately buckle to the other.

Also, Johnny deserves to take his time. It's a life-charting choice. He strikes me as the kind of person that'll take a while to decide, and that's fine!

I also don't get the Treliving hate. Is the guy supposed to see the future? He did what any GM would have done, and anyone on here claiming they had a better idea is full of bull. We get it, you're smarter than everyone else on the planet and are infallible. Neat.

Finally, I'm still pretty confident Johnny signs here. 8 years, chance to be the best player ever in the franchise, he and the family seem to like Calgary, friends on the team....pretty strong reasons to stay. I'm sure this will drag out to try to scrape more $$ out of the Flames, but once the clock runs out, my bet is on Johnny staying put.

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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I’m sure he’d have put pen to paper on 8x12.

Last year he was a 71 point guy who'd missed the POs. A 68 point guy the year before, who lost in round one (scoring at the same pace).

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by agulati

If Gaudreau’s rights are moved, does the acquiring team have the ability to sign him to a 8 year contract, or does he have to have played for the team in order to get the 8th year.

No, the Flames would have to do a sign and trade for any other team to sign him for 8 years.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Agree to disagree for the 11,000 time then I guess.

I see the franchise player being an ownership decision with the GM laying out the options.

"we could sign him for this"
"we could trade him for that"
"we could sit on it, go for it this year, and see what happens next summer"

It's a classic managing up scenario. Impossible to know how good of a job Tre did, though his ability to politically navigate ownership to the point where they're big advocates of him should speak for something.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Caboose

I don't get the hysteria. Johnny's agent and Treliving are using good ol' negotiating tactics. Neither one is going to immediately buckle to the other.

Also, Johnny deserves to take his time. It's a life-charting choice. He strikes me as the kind of person that'll take a while to decide, and that's fine!

I also don't get the Treliving hate. Is the guy supposed to see the future? He did what any GM would have done, and anyone on here claiming they had a better idea is full of bull. We get it, you're smarter than everyone else on the planet and are infallible. Neat.

Finally, I'm still pretty confident Johnny signs here. 8 years, chance to be the best player ever in the franchise, he and the family seem to like Calgary, friends on the team....pretty strong reasons to stay. I'm sure this will drag out to try to scrape more $$ out of the Flames, but once the clock runs out, my bet is on Johnny staying put.

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Solid post, Johnny has gone out of his way to say he and his family like it here. Hopefully the 2 sides will get it done sooner than later.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Caboose

I don't get the hysteria. Johnny's agent and Treliving are using good ol' negotiating tactics. Neither one is going to immediately buckle to the other.

I mean, sure?
But handcuffing your franchise at the draft to me seems selfish and tacky.
They haven't even acknowledged the offer yet, you would think someone who has interest in signing with the team would at least verbally acknowledge the offer and let the team know what they may plan to do.

By not saying anything and thus holding up another UFA signing and giving the flames 0 flexibility at the draft, it looks pretty poor.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Last year he was a 71 point guy who'd missed the POs. A 68 point guy the year before, who lost in round one (scoring at the same pace).

And?

The question was “is there an amount that he would have signed for last summer?”

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I mean, sure?
But handcuffing your franchise at the draft to me seems selfish and tacky.
They haven't even acknowledged the offer yet, you would think someone who has interest in signing with the team would at least verbally acknowledge the offer and let the team know what they may plan to do.

By not saying anything and thus holding up another UFA signing and giving the flames 0 flexibility at the draft, it looks pretty poor.

It's almost like what he's doing is consistent with trying to decide if he stays or goes before he's even ready to negotiate.

[OILFAN #81]

As a rival fan this is my perspective:

If the rumored value of 8 x 9.5 was offered and he is thinking about it from a money thing, the value has to go up to 8 x 10.5-10.75 at least. To lose a 1st line player and your best player over 1 M annually cannot happen.

If it isn't a money thing and he wants to be home, then nothing can be done and he earned the right as a UFA. But if it isn't about that and simply money, you up the offer to 10.75 M+. I understand there are limits to each player but you can replace 3rd and 4th liners and cut a M or 2 there but to replace your best player with a downgrade (there isn't a player on the market who is as good as him), is unacceptable if this is only a money thing. To "overpay" by a small margin for those who feel that number would be an overpayment has to be done.

I'm not saying I am right, I am just saying this is my opinion and you can't lose your 29 year old best player (which in turn could lose your 2nd best player) by 1 M.

[powderjunkie]

One thing to note is that having Johnny and Tkachuk both playing for contract years (amongst other factors) seemed to do a ton to recover their trade values.

The team was too good to seriously consider trading Johnny at the TDL, so it is moot for him.

But let's travel back to last off-season and consider 4 wingers' '20-21 stats:

Player A: 0.29gpg 0.77 ppg (Dec 1997)
Player B: 0.46gpg 0.74 ppg (Nov 1996)
Player C: 0.37gpg 0.89 ppg (Apr 1995)
Player D: 0.34gpg 0.88 ppg (Aug 1993)

Player A was Tkachuk and we know his contract status.

Player B was an unsigned RFA with pts plateauing & career high in goals; he got traded for a top-10-protected 1st+ Devon Levi

Player C was an unsigned RFA with stats trending steadily upwards; he got traded for a 2nd+Blais (before expansion draft)

Player D is Johnny; 1x6.75M with impending 5-team TC


Obviously there are a ton of other factors consider; overall player quality and general past stats would definitely favour the Flames, but contract status favoured Reinhart and Buchnevich (who both came in at lower AAVs and produced ppg+ this year). I'm pretty sure both were in a position to sign QO and go to UFA next year (Reinhart $5.2M; PB only $3.5M). PB signed 4 days after the trade; SR was more like 2 weeks.

You'd probably be looking at different suitors for the Flames players and I do think they'd be worth a bit more to the right team, but this is a reasonable snapshot of winger value at the time. Both trades happened a few days after the expansion draft.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

No, the Flames would have to do a sign and trade for any other team to sign him for 8 years.

And for some reason NHL GM’s haven’t figured out how to do this.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

As a rival fan this is my perspective:

If the rumored value of 8 x 9.5 was offered and he is thinking about it from a money thing, the value has to go up to 8 x 10.5-10.75 at least. To lose a 1st line player and your best player over 1 M annually cannot happen.

If it isn't a money thing and he wants to be home, then nothing can be done and he earned the right as a UFA. But if it isn't about that and simply money, you up the offer to 10.75 M+. I understand there are limits to each player but you can replace 3rd and 4th liners and cut a M or 2 there but to replace your best player with a downgrade (there isn't a player on the market who is as good as him), is unacceptable if this is only a money thing. To "overpay" by a small margin for those who feel that number would be an overpayment has to be done.

I'm not saying I am right, I am just saying this is my opinion and you can't lose your 29 year old best player (which in turn could lose your 2nd best player) by 1 M.

The $9.5 million offer is pure speculation at this point. That seems like the kind of take it or leave it offer you make to a pending UFA that you are okay with losing which the Flames are not. I get the feeling the Flames made a better offer than that and one that may be hard to top with a 7 year offer and it's come down to the player deciding where he wants to play for the rest of his career. If the Flames lose Gaudreau it's not likely going to be because of money.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

It is a hard cap league, so there has to be a limit. I think for Johnny that should be in the 10 range, but who knows. As a fan, I sure hope he stays, but he might just want to return to the east coast.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Caboose

I don't get the hysteria. Johnny's agent and Treliving are using good ol' negotiating tactics. Neither one is going to immediately buckle to the other.

Also, Johnny deserves to take his time. It's a life-charting choice. He strikes me as the kind of person that'll take a while to decide, and that's fine!

I also don't get the Treliving hate. Is the guy supposed to see the future? He did what any GM would have done, and anyone on here claiming they had a better idea is full of bull. We get it, you're smarter than everyone else on the planet and are infallible. Neat.

Finally, I'm still pretty confident Johnny signs here. 8 years, chance to be the best player ever in the franchise, he and the family seem to like Calgary, friends on the team....pretty strong reasons to stay. I'm sure this will drag out to try to scrape more $$ out of the Flames, but once the clock runs out, my bet is on Johnny staying put.

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It’s a business, you get paid based on results.

Sure it’s not your fault but you didn’t produce. Bye.

[Vinny01]

Eklund luckily is wrong 99% of the time.

He has the number 2 pick for Tkachuk as a possibility

Also has Gaudreau’s rights being traded to Philly as something that could happen soon

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Eklund luckily is wrong 99% of the time.

He has the number 2 pick for Tkachuk as a possibility

Also has Gaudreau’s rights being traded to Philly as something that could happen soon

Eklund: Gaudreau's rights for Gritty and half a Geno's cheesesteak.