2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GioforPM]

Yeah when it was said LA tore it down I was thinking pre-cups. In the example, the equivalent to trading Tanev, Markstrom and Tkachuk would have been trading Kopitar, Quick and Doughty.

What they did was try and retool around the old core.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

,
There isn’t really precident for a team doing a tear down after making the playoffs 3 of 4 years and winning the division in two of those seasons. Of course if Gaudreau walks and Tkachuk refuses to re-sign then you have to think about it but there really isn’t precedent for it.

Why does there need to be precident of intent?

The reality is that plenty of teams have lucked into accidental teardowns, the Avs included (they fancied themselves a playoff team going into the year they set the record for lowest point total in history). Why does fluke have to be the precident?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Why does there need to be precident of intent?

The reality is that plenty of teams have lucked into accidental teardowns, the Avs included (they fancied themselves a playoff team going into the year they set the record for lowest point total in history). Why does fluke have to be the precident?

I don’t even know of accidental successful tear downs. And certainly not ones involving trading the best players on the team. The Pens famously tanked to get Mario, and arguably later for Sid. But they kept their best players to play with those high draft picks.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah when it was said LA tore it down I was thinking pre-cups. In the example, the equivalent to trading Tanev, Markstrom and Tkachuk would have been trading Kopitar, Quick and Doughty.

What they did was try and retool around the old core.

I’ll give you Tkachuk but I’m ok to keep Tkachuk if he resigns for 6 to 8 years similar to Kopitar

Not sure who compares tanev to doughty. But when the kings started to rebuild guys like kopitar and doughty were in their mid 20s. Even quick was younger than Markstrom is now

Are you resigning Tanev after this contract? Markstrom? Backlund? Toffolli?

[madmike]

Originally Posted by blender

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
These guys are playing to win. Sutter. Treliving. Tanking and assett management are not the primary thing. Flames have a good core. In my mind they are all in, and I'll be surprised if they don't keep after it, and as a fan still happy about their best season in years, I for one am stoked.
I hope they sign Johnny, and with at least another year if Tkachuk they take care of Sutter's unfinished business.

If they lose Gaudreau unfortunately I think the window for this team is closed and they'd be better off dealing the assets they have. Of course they won't because it's the Flames, but without Gaudreau I don't think this is even a playoff team, let alone a Cup contender.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by blender

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
These guys are playing to win. Sutter. Treliving. Tanking and assett management are not the primary thing. Flames have a good core. In my mind they are all in, and I'll be surprised if they don't keep after it, and as a fan still happy about their best season in years, I for one am stoked.
I hope they sign Johnny, and with at least another year if Tkachuk they take care of Sutter's unfinished business.

If johnny walks there's no way this team will take care of any unfinished business. It's just crazy that ppl think a less skilled team will do better next season.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t even know of accidental successful tear downs. And certainly not ones involving trading the best players on the team. The Pens famously tanked to get Mario, and arguably later for Sid. But they kept their best players to play with those high draft picks.

Umm no?

Lemieux retired/injured but they traded Kovalev, Straka and Hrdina. Morozov left during the lockout. Even Dick was traded shortly after Crosby arrived.

Who were these best players they kept around to play with Crosby? Lemieux coming back as the owner surely can't count lol.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I’ll give you Tkachuk but I’m ok to keep Tkachuk if he resigns for 6 to 8 years similar to Kopitar

Not sure who compares tanev to doughty. But when the kings started to rebuild guys like kopitar and doughty were in their mid 20s. Even quick was younger than Markstrom is now

Are you resigning Tanev after this contract? Markstrom? Backlund? Toffolli?

I’m comparing the three best players at forward goalie and defence, that’s all.

No team has done what you propose, not successfully.

[OptimalTates]

Now don't get me wrong, they didn't necessary plan on a tank (neither did Tampa) with the idea they would come roaring back. They were bankrupt and selling off everything, and then still had to give the team to Lemieux. But they didn't keep anyone around to play with Crosby and friends except the owner who couldn't be traded (and he played a full 26 games with Crosby).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Umm no?

Lemieux retired/injured but they traded Kovalev, Straka and Hrdina. Morozov left during the lockout. Even Dick was traded shortly after Crosby arrived.

Who were these best players they kept around to play with Crosby? Lemieux coming back as the owner surely can't count lol.

Those departures were all by attrition and bankruptcy. The Pens were wandering in the wilderness. It wasn’t a design.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Those departures were all by attrition and bankruptcy. The Pens were wandering in the wilderness. It wasn’t a design.

But you can't say they kept all their best players to play with the high draft picks and then say "well except for the ones they didn't...which was all of them".

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

But you can't say they kept all their best players to play with the high draft picks and then say "well except for the ones they didn't...which was all of them".

Gonchar, Recchi, Leclair, Palffy, Malone were all on the team with Crosby. They got rid of some good players 2 years before the tank for Sid, true. But they replaced them with good players. And the year they raided them Mario scored 91 points. He wasn’t exactly chopped liver.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gonchar, Recchi, Leclair, Palffy, Malone were all on the team with Crosby.

Umm. Now which ones of those players were on the team before Crosby? Which ones did they keep to play with Crosby...not acquire to play with Crosby.

Malone.

They tore down the team (intentional or not, in this case not), got several high draft picks, built the team around those high draft picks. The protypical super rebuild.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Umm. Now which ones of those players were on the team before Crosby? Which ones did they keep to play with Crosby...not acquire to play with Crosby.

Malone.

The point is they had veteran guys to play with him. If you already have said vets, why trade them?

They weren’t accumulating picks - they traded for more players. Not one decent pick acquired when any of the guys you mentioned left. But they did get Rico Fata. They just didn’t want to pay some of those guys. Their picks were because they were naturally horrible, not by design.

I mean if you are saying going bankrupt is a strategy for team rebuilding, I think the salary floor now gets in the way.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The point is they had veteran guys to play with him. If you already have said vets, why trade them?

If they kept their veterans, they wouldn't have finished in the bottom so many years and got Malkin and a bunch of balls in the lottery for Crosby. They wouldn't have needed to acquire veterans to play with Crosby because he wouldn't be on the team.

[OptimalTates]

I get the idea of Colorado not "rebuilding." Up and down, acquired MacKinnon years before Makar and had some solid years in between. Sure, fair argument.

I disagree with those who say Tampa didn't rebuild because they kept St.Louis and Lecavalier while they traded Richards and Boyle and reduced their payroll by letting the Bulin wall and friends walk. I get the argument, I just disagree with it.

But now we're saying the Penguins didn't tear down the team for a rebuild because they kept rookie Malone. Jeeze, at least point to Edmonton and Buffalo as reasons not to tear it down and tank instead of acting like the Penguins didn't rebuild by tearing it completely down.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

If they kept their veterans, they wouldn't have finished in the bottom so many years and got Malkin and a bunch of balls in the lottery for Crosby. They wouldn't have needed to acquire veterans to play with Crosby because he wouldn't be on the team.

Doing what Pittsburgh did because they were broke because it worked once (pre lottery) doesn’t strike me as a good plan.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Doing what Pittsburgh did because they were broke because it worked once (pre lottery) doesn’t strike me as a good plan.

Sure, that's fine. Again point to Edmonton and Buffalo who tried to replicate it and failed spectacularly. But you're pretty much making up stuff when you say the Penguins kept their best players. They didn't.

I don’t even know of accidental successful tear downs. And certainly not ones involving trading the best players on the team. The Pens famously tanked to get Mario, and arguably later for Sid. But they kept their best players to play with those high draft picks.

You brought up the most famous and obvious successful accidental tear down while talking about not knowing about one. It's just absurd.

[OptimalTates]

But fine, if the Penguins didn't tear it down and rebuild and instead they just traded all their veteran players, accumulated high draft picks over the years while being a basement team, and then built a Stanley Cup winning team around those high draft picks, which totally isn't rebuilding, I hope the Flames do that if Gaudreau leaves. Lol.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Sure, that's fine. Again point to Edmonton and Buffalo who tried to replicate it and failed spectacularly. But you're pretty much making up stuff when you say the Penguins kept their best players. They didn't.



You brought up the most famous and obvious successful accidental tear down while talking about not knowing about one. It's just absurd.

I will give you the Pens for accidental tear downs. It won’t work today.