[Trade] Toffoli to Flames for 2022 1st *, 2023 5th, Heineman, and Pitlick

[GioforPM]

Dude has so many changes of direction he’s getting motion sickness. I’m not sure he knows what he’s arguing any more. Flames made a mistake by trading picks away. But erred by adding picks for free. Because they didn’t pick someone else.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

“Go for” isn’t a proposal. You have to say who you would trade with and what they’d accept got give up their pick.

And you haven’t said who you’d pick with 2022 26OA.

"Go for" has been said in this thread like 1300 times, as a justification for losing our first rounder.

I just said it once. And yes I've seen the ridiculous trade proposals that people concoct and spend days refining on here, none of which have ever happened. I've never seen the point.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Early on he said that he was very high on Mattias Hävelid. Undoubtedly another franchise defenseman in the making.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

you're finally getting it

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

"Go for" has been said in this thread like 1300 times, as a justification for losing our first rounder.

I just said it once. And yes I've seen the ridiculous trade proposals that people concoct and spend days refining on here, none of which have ever happened. I've never seen the point.

So you won’t show your work. Got it. We’re done.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

I mean if there's multiple people asking for my opinion, I'll give it.

But at some point y'all gotta ask yourselves some questions lol.


Trades are not something that can just be nailed down at a certain price. I'd have multiple targets with multiple teams and obviously you go with the fit that you get.

At the time I had three strategies, I'll say them honestly. 2/3 look good now. I can live with that.

1. Go for Drysdale-type pick. There were a few options up there. If you gun for Drysdale and get Quinn, not so bad.

2. Go for 2021 picks. Deal with teams like Detroit, New Jersey, to move our pick to 2021. The idea here being that outside of Drysdale, 2021 had some fantastic D in the top 10.

3. (this is the only one that wouldn't look good now): Go for Askarov. (if getting Drysdale was too hard). I was high on him. He's far from dead but I'm less high on him now.


Price?

Anyone.

I would have traded Gaudreau for multiple first rounders, given his contract situation, or Tkachuk. Or really almost anyone on the team now, except our younger D or younger goalies. we'll be needing them. But I'd be starting with the guys who have impossible contracts and tend to not perform in the playoffs.

Well you'd be getting late 1sts for Gaudreau because he wouldn't have made sense for anybody that picked top 12.

[RedHawk12]

Who is this clown saying we screwed up big time by not drafting Schneider like he's the next Lidstrom?

We had our eyes on Zary and we got two additional picks. There was not much separating Zary and Schneider on draft day as far as the rankings go.

And then you go on to say that we screwed up by not trading Johnny and trading for Toffoli, as if having another Zary today would be so much better for this team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Anytime someone gets tunnel vision on a certain prospect, in this case Schneider, it's such a narrow argument.
But since he won't show his work I'll provide some quick information.

On Bob Mckenzie's final draft rankings, Schneider was 17, Zaray was 22. Jeremie Poirier who was picked with one of the extra picks was 33.

On Craig Button's final rankings, Zary was 11. Schneider was 25. Jeremie Poirier was 21.

This link has a bunch of the rankings. This shows that the average ranking for Zary across several sources was 14. Schneider was 22. Poirier was 23.

Seems like the Flames did OK moving down and getting a guy ranked ahead of Schneider and a guy ranked just behind him.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...rts-on-top-125

This info is out there, and is easy to find. Any notion that somehow Schneider was widely thought as being the better prospect is incorrect.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Well you'd be getting late 1sts for Gaudreau because he wouldn't have made sense for anybody that picked top 12.

Is a real issue, but again if it was me trading him it would have happened potentially a lot....earlier.....

3 way deals, or/and Tkachuk would be my answers to that. I do think there was some value in the 2020 and 2021 top picks, for the defenceman available then.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Well you'd be getting late 1sts for Gaudreau because he wouldn't have made sense for anybody that picked top 12.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Anytime someone gets tunnel vision on a certain prospect, in this case Schneider, it's such a narrow argument.
But since he won't show his work I'll provide some quick information.

On Bob Mckenzie's final draft rankings, Schneider was 17, Zaray was 22. Jeremie Poirier who was picked with one of the extra picks was 33.

On Craig Button's final rankings, Zary was 11. Schneider was 25. Jeremie Poirier was 21.

This link has a bunch of the rankings. This shows that the average ranking for Zary across several sources was 14. Schneider was 22. Poirier was 23.

Seems like the Flames did OK moving down and getting a guy ranked ahead of Schneider and a guy ranked just behind him.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...rts-on-top-125

This info is out there, and is easy to find. Any notion that somehow Schneider was widely thought as being the better prospect is incorrect.

You could go complain to Bob Mckenzie but I think he would tell you he was the one who was right.

The stuff I read had Schneider ranked higher, that stuff is still there, and that stuff is looking pretty accurate right now.

If you forgot the relevance to this topic it was ..did we give up first rounders or not.

Answer is, we did in 2020. For a bunch of reasons which, at this point in time, don't look very clear.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

You could go complain to Bob Mckenzie but I think he would tell you he was the one who was right.

The stuff I read had Schneider ranked higher, that stuff is still there, and that stuff is looking pretty accurate right now.

If you forgot the relevance to this topic it was ..did we give up first rounders or not.

Answer is, we did in 2020. For a bunch of reasons which, at this point in time, don't look very clear.

LOL. No. First rounders were exchanged. Which is a far cry from your complaint that 26OA as traded for cheap signed middle six scoring

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. No. First rounders were exchanged. Which is a far cry from your complaint that 26OA as traded for cheap signed middle six scoring

Yes, first rounders who are now succeeding in the NHL were traded away. Even if you don't like that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

“The stuff I read”
Nice citation

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Yes, first rounders who are now succeeding in the NHL were traded away. Even if you don't like that.

They weren't traded away. The spots they were selected in were. Zary was the guy they wanted. Had they not made any trades Zary would have been selected at 19.

You can argue that they made the wrong choice and you might be right but Zary was the guy they were picking no matter what.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Inferno

They weren't traded away. The spots they were selected in were. Zary was the guy they wanted. Had they not made any trades Zary would have been selected at 19.

You can argue that they made the wrong choice and you might be right but Zary was the guy they were picking no matter what.

I understand, but please note that the spots themselves are precisely the subject of the discussion

[cam_wmh]

haha, I find cruel entertainment in so many competent posters being exasperated by this guy's pedestrian opinions.

Like a group of fathers trying to teach a kid to ride his bike 2 wheeled, remove his training wheels, but he won't put his feet on the pedals.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Yes, first rounders who are now succeeding in the NHL were traded away. Even if you don't like that.

That’s not how trading draft picks work, unless you can prove that, had they not traded the pick, they would have picked said player.

What actually would have happened - they would have picked Zary anyway, and not had the extra picks they gained.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That’s not how trading draft picks work, unless you can prove that, had they not traded the pick, they would have picked said player.

What actually would have happened - they would have picked Zary anyway, and not had the extra picks they gained.

And can you prove that?

If you want to get super technical, we're both wrong. They had 2-3 different players on their list, Zary was not on top but was high. Can't remember who they were now but they would not have picked Zary.


Either way, the Flames draft pick choices are a whole other thread.

They traded away the pick and that pick is now making a difference in the NHL at an incredibly young age.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

“The stuff I read”
Nice citation

Haha, I've finally found someone worse than my students at citing sources!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

And can you prove that?

If you want to get super technical, we're both wrong. They had 2-3 different players on their list, Zary was not on top but was high. Can't remember who they were now but they would not have picked Zary.


Either way, the Flames draft pick choices are a whole other thread.

They traded away the pick and that pick is now making a difference in the NHL at an incredibly young age.

LMAO, that's incredibly convenient.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

can you prove that?

If you want to get super technical, we're both wrong. They had 2-3 different players on their list, Zary was not on top but was high. Can't remember who they were now but they would not have picked Zary.


Either way, the Flames draft pick choices are a whole other thread.

They traded away the pick and that pick is now making a difference in the NHL at an incredibly young age.

Can YOU prove that?

"stuff I read" and "cant remember who" don't exactly back up your hypothesis on Flames draft moves.

Jesus dude just stop, you've already made a fool of yourself.