Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Production of elite players doesn't follow the same trajectory, many produce very well still at 35+.

Less likely for wingers who rely on quick feet.


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[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Less likely for wingers who rely on quick feet.


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Johnny relies more on his IQ and hands/vision then his speed

[Harry Lime]

Not sure where to put this, but Ottawa's pick has been rumoured to be in play for a long time now, and now there are rumbles also about the possibility of Cutter Gauthier falling into that #7 spot.

They would pay a lot to have the brothers. #7, 2023 1st, Shane Pinto.

Anyway.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Not sure where to put this, but Ottawa's pick has been rumoured to be in play for a long time now, and now there are rumbles also about the possibility of Cutter Gauthier falling into that #7 spot.

They would pay a lot to have the brothers. #7, 2023 1st, Shane Pinto.

Anyway.

I would pass on that. Apparently they are looking for scoring help. Why not keep it simple, #7 for Mangiapane.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I would pass on that. Apparently they are looking for scoring help. Why not keep it simple, #7 for Mangiapane.

You add in our 2nd round pick and change Mangi to Dube and I am in.


7OA for Dube and 59OA

[Sandman]

A trade with Ottawa would be a lot more interesting if Batherson or Norris were involved.

Chucky for 7th overall, Norris, Pinto?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

You add in our 2nd round pick and change Mangi to Dube and I am in.


7OA for Dube and 59OA

The reason I went Mangi is under the assumption we sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I think Dube is on the verge of breaking out and is cheap. I don't know where we find the dollars to re-up bread boy.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

You add in our 2nd round pick and change Mangi to Dube and I am in.


7OA for Dube and 59OA

I always thought Dube had potential but how is a 7OA not just as likely to give them just as much scoring help fairly quickly.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Sandman

A trade with Ottawa would be a lot more interesting if Batherson or Norris were involved.

Chucky for 7th overall, Norris, Pinto?

That I would accept. I love Norris though.

[Harry Lime]

I would think Norris is nigh untouchable. I mean, Ottawa is part of a potential trade, too, and they want to move out of lottery territory.

Just thought the Gauthier available was a nice opportunity if it happens. I have him #4 on my list for the draft.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The reason I went Mangi is under the assumption we sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I think Dube is on the verge of breaking out and is cheap. I don't know where we find the dollars to re-up bread boy.

Fair enough. I'll be honest I just like Bread more than I do Dube. I think he has a higher ceiling yet.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I always thought Dube had potential but how is a 7OA not just as likely to give them just as much scoring help fairly quickly.

I hadn't honestly thought through my proposal completely. It was an off the cuff reply cause I am enamoured with Bread's game.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I would think Norris is nigh untouchable. I mean, Ottawa is part of a potential trade, too, and they want to move out of lottery territory.

That's true, but don't forget-they would be getting a young, 100-point winger in return, who hasn't reached his prime, and uniting him with Brady would be priceless.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Johnny relies more on his IQ and hands/vision then his speed

His IQ and vision rely on his quick feet and shiftiness...it's all inter-related.

I think he'll remain an effective player and still be able to skate circles hulking D-men, but his transition game may suffer.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

While you may end up correct, but if you let all your best players go, you may never contend.

Be prepared to have the back end of these contracts stink, but you’ll likely be rebuilding anyway.

Learn to plug your nose.

Yep, the Coyotes draft and rebuild a lot, and they are always full of promising young players. But they do not pay to get over the hump and start contending, so they go from young and promising to selling off to young and promising over and over.

Eventually you have to sign huge deals on homegrown stars and superstars along with some major free agents and know that some of the contracts will absolutely stink at the end.

[DoubleK]

I've come to the realization Johnny is going to sign before the draft.

If the rumours of $9.5M x 8 years are true, a team not called Calgary is going to have to offer $10.85 x 7 years to match. He's not getting that unless he wants to go to Ottawa. Jersey won't cough up that kind of cash for a small player.

[jayswin]

You don't think teams are going to offer 10.85 for Gaudreau? I disagree. And I also disagree with the direct "8 years from Calgary just has to match 7 years from others teams" idea. Yes, it will mean a little, but it's not as direct as many are making it out to be.

Gaudreau's camp will still likley see that 8th year as a large earning year on his next contract even though he'll be 36. Could he Flame out and not get offered another deal or a super low contact? Sure. But I would bet he believes he'll still sign another 3-4 year deal at the end of this next contract. If he thinks he'll be good enough to get $4-5mil AAV over 3-4 years in 7 years than you can't simply suggest that our 8 year deal only need cover other team's 7 year deals.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You don't think teams are going to offer 10.85 for Gaudreau? I disagree. And I also disagree with the direct "8 years from Calgary just has to match 7 years from others teams" idea. Yes, it will mean a little, but it's not as direct as many are making it out to be.

Gaudreau's camp will still likley see that 8th year as a large earning year on his next contract even though he'll be 36. Could he Flame out and not get offered another deal or a super low contact? Sure. But I would bet he believes he'll still sign another 3-4 year deal at the end of this next contract. If he thinks he'll be good enough to get $4-5mil AAV over 3-4 years in 7 years than you can't simply suggest that our 8 year deal only need cover other team's 7 year deals.

Yeah but if he can get that deal he can get the same deal after 8 years.

Myself - I think the offer will end up being 10.5, which is harder to match.

[Harry Lime]

There is a reason why there are different rules for 35+ players. Massive amounts of risk.

[Jason14h]

The front loading of the contract and having signing bonuses with low yearly salary is more important then the actual average yearly salary

If Flames are offering 25 million in the first 12 months and 1 day upfront it’s more important then if they offer an extra $500k a year on average over the course of the season

The timing of the real $$ is very important in these deals

[Mr.Coffee]

Calgary should offer $10. Gaudreau will counter 11.5 or some idiotic thing. Flames go 10.5 final offer. Gaudreau will have to count on somebody offering 12, which isn’t happening, and will agree.

^^ that’s how this negotiation should go.

Instead Calgary started with 9.5, which is dumb. Gaudreau should say $11 per and stick to it until free agency, because Calgary got greedy out the gate with a Ufa. Dumb by Calgary. This isn’t s RFA. It’s a UFa. The most important in Flames history. Stop ####ing around.

Need to be over $80mm in total contract value, and north of $82. Then you’ll re-sign him. Instead, Treliving is prioritizing the wrong things.