[Trade] Toffoli to Flames for 2022 1st *, 2023 5th, Heineman, and Pitlick

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are looking at odds much later than the TDL.

This says the Flames moved to just behind the Bolts. And had the second best odds in the west:

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/s...etting-market/

With the Flames only potentially meeting the Avs in the west final, and with lots of possible exits for the Avs, your betting odds argument is actually backwards.

Those are better odds for sure but still multiple riskier than Colorado, this thing basically saying Colorado's going to win it baring a major upset.

Anyway, I'll give you these odds are a Bit better but I still don't see them as a scream for sacrificing our future, nor the fact that any team can exit (Flames showed that well).


These odds imho still say "don't risk it this year" to me. You want to debate that fine, but here's what's not debatable: We went into these playoffs with our best player being proven to be totally ineffective in playoff hockey due to his size. Sorry just facts.

We knew Gaudreau would show up with his B game. He always does in the playoffs, at best.

The fact that we are even mentioning Tanev's name indicates massive gaping holes on defence.

So, best player....scratch
defense....scratch
goaltending? was always a scratch for me and I've never seen him do well in the playoffs, but I know some love Markstrom


For me it was a no-brainer to save assets given we have hardly any notable prospects, and given that we knew Gaudreau, likely others would lay an egg when the season got tough. Because they've shown us this consistently.

So now I'm getting into things beyond the scope of Toffoli but bottom line, no. No way should we have thought this risk was worth sacrificing a first round pick.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Flames moved...
2022 1st

2023 5th

Tyler Pitlick

Emil Henieman

...for Tyler Toffoli. Which of those pieces amounts to "the future" in this scenario?

Moreover, and as has already been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread, the Flames were literally considered Stanley Cup favourites at the time this trade was made.

I am tired of your nonsensical, prattling on about this. You should stop.

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Have you literally never seen Gaudreau play in the post-season?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Have you literally never seen Gaudreau play in the post-season?

LOL. So because they had Gaudreau they should have burned it down and rebuilt.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. So because they had Gaudreau they should have burned it down and rebuilt.

They shouldn't have had Gaudreau to begin with. They should have traded him after he totally bombed out in the 2019 playoffs, and his value was sky high with term.

As soon as he proved that he could never be effective against real teams in the playoffs, this team should have gone in a whole other direction if it really wanted a cup.

But yeah, since we literally knew this and kept him to end of term, yeah. likely means a burn down now.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

They shouldn't have had Gaudreau to begin with. They should have traded him after he totally bombed out in the 2019 playoffs, and his value was sky high with term.

As soon as he proved that he could never be effective against real teams in the playoffs, this team should have gone in a whole other direction if it really wanted a cup.

But yeah, since we literally knew this and kept him to end of term, yeah. likely means a burn down now.

Just #### off. Seriously.

[dino7c]

Gaudreau was over PPG in the palyoffs...one point behind Kucherov when the Flames were eliminated

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau was over PPG in the palyoffs...one point behind Kucherov when the Flames were eliminated

Does not matter. Gaudreau stinks in playoffs. Is Narrative, Comrade. Read Pravda!

[Scroopy Noopers]

Yes… the Flames should have traded their best player after he “bombed” and “proved he could never be effective”…. which lead to “sky high” trade value… this all adds up.

[GioforPM]

It’s just trolling at this point so I’m out.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Moreover, and as has already been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread, the Flames were literally considered Stanley Cup favourites at the time this trade was made.

I am not against the trade, then or now.

But at no time this season where the Flames considered Stanley Cup favourites.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau was over PPG in the palyoffs...one point behind Kucherov when the Flames were eliminated

Against a team that also didn't belong in the playoffs. Was pretty ineffective against Edmonton, who has no defense.

[jjgallow]

MOD EDIT: Stop insulting this site or post somewhere else.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I am not against the trade, then or now.

But at no time this season where the Flames considered Stanley Cup favourites.

Not favourites since there is only one. But contenders? Sure they were. Which means they should have gone for it. Because the favorite often doesn’t win out. Colorado has been a top contender, if not favorite, for a couple years and for one reason or another missed, leaving the door open for other teams.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

So there are some people who can think for themselves here, good to see

"Think." Is that what you imagine you are doing? It looks more like "troll" to me.

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[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Think." Is that what you imagine you are doing? It looks more like "troll" to me.

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Trolls attack, I'm just responding. I'm allowed to have my opinion, I'm allowed to have justifications for it.

I'm allowed to respond to people who don't want me to have an opinion that doesn't fit their short-term-thinking narrative that they think is a prerequisite to being a "real fan".

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not favourites since there is only one. But contenders? Sure they were. Which means they should have gone for it. Because the favorite often doesn’t win out. Colorado has been a top contender, if not favorite, for a couple years and for one reason or another missed, leaving the door open for other teams.

I would say there was 4-5 clear favorites

The Flames was in the next group because of the good season. Even Sutter said winning one series was the goal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I would say there was 4-5 clear favorites

The Flames was in the next group because of the good season. Even Sutter said winning one series was the goal.

Well Vegas put them 4th, and second in the west.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well Vegas put them 4th, and second in the west.

When it comes down to it, I think that's really 50% of the disagreement on this thread.

Were the Flames cup favorites or not.

Vegas or not, I don't think you can be a cup favorite when you best player is Gaudreau, sorry. Or when you best D is Tanev, sorry. Or when your goalie has little to no playoff success. All three of those combined? no chance, regardless of ranking.

And even that Vegas ranking didn't give odds enough to justify risking our future. Colorado had odds like that, yes. We didn't.


The other half of this arguement is that we picked a 30 year old winger. which was ridiculous when you looked at our priorities. It was like maybe our 4th highest priority.

And you actually demonstrated that by showing the types of players Colorado, Tampa would pay for. First off they weren't getting caught in trade deadline sweepstakes, secondly they were after younger two-way centers, and goalies. Even then I'll admit I think they probably made some bad calls giving up those picks, but at least there was some kind of logic they had in them.

[midniteowl]

Trolls attack, I'm just responding. I'm allowed to have my opinion, I'm allowed to have justifications for it..

Sigh, I hope people just ignore him and not quote his non sense. That would make me putting him on ignore works.

[Roof-Daddy]

"DeRp! i TolD u gUys tHe flaMeS wOuldN't Win tHe CuP!"

Congratulations there Nostradamus. Really went out on a limb with that one.