Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I have been a vocal questioner of treliving, even at the best of times, but treliving squeezed the negotiations in the last rfa deal, got a tremendous value aav in my opinion. The only issue is that treliving failed to bring in a coach for much of the term of the deal, and perhaps not adding enough skill to the group, leaving the results over the term of the deal pretty lack lustre.

I firmly believe that the decision to stay or go is completely on Gaudreau. The desired Money/term is likely on the table, all the leverage is with the player. Hope he signs, but he's also earned the right to make this decision.

Can't really blame treliving if the flames lose gaudreau. I also have more sympathy for treliving. I'm sure the "5 year plan" he set out with didn't include the top 2 highest drafted centers by the franchise to basically become non-factors for the team's trajectory (monahan and Bennett).

Treliving got great value on the last contract. That's certainly true and deserves credit. If the team loses its most valuable asset for nothing in return he will also deserve the blame for not having signed or traded him before this situation. He has gambled in letting Johnny's contract run out like this and ending up in a situationwhere the player has all the leverage. He went all in on this season. His winnings were a division title and second round loss. Worth the potential cost? A good bet?

I still think Johnny's going to re-sign and it will be a bet that works out alright for Treliving and for fans, but he threw caution to the wind in letting it get to this point without securing some guaranteed return.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Treliving got great value on the last contract. That's certainly true and deserves credit. If the team loses its most valuable asset for nothing in return he will also deserve the blame for not having signed or traded him before this situation. He has gambled in letting Johnny's contract run out like this and ending up in a situation where the player has all the leverage. He went all in on this season. His winnings were a division title and second round loss. Worth the potential cost? A good bet?

I still think Johnny's going to re-sign and it will be a bet that works out alright for Treliving and for fans, but he threw caution to the wind in letting it get to this point without securing some guaranteed return.

Without knowing whether ownership would have even allowed Trev to trade Johnny, and without knowing what those trade offers would have even been for Johnny, it's impossible to answer those questions.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I’m not sure why some random flames staff member would be throwing that kind of info to somebody unless they were very close. As for the grandparents info , all grandparents want their grandchildren leaving close by . That is not news .

I know a person who is pretty high profile on the Flames non hockey side and he has, several times, been 100% wrong on something that was supposed to happen with the team and players. I don’t know if he does it on purpose to troll or what. All it shows me is non-hockey staff have about as much insight as us.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Treliving got great value on the last contract. That's certainly true and deserves credit. If the team loses its most valuable asset for nothing in return he will also deserve the blame for not having signed or traded him before this situation. He has gambled in letting Johnny's contract run out like this and ending up in a situationwhere the player has all the leverage. He went all in on this season. His winnings were a division title and second round loss. Worth the potential cost? A good bet?

I still think Johnny's going to re-sign and it will be a bet that works out alright for Treliving and for fans, but he threw caution to the wind in letting it get to this point without securing some guaranteed return.

Treliving played hard ball and get applauded for all his RFAs

I got to think the players/agent remember that when they become UFAs and it’s payback time. They are certainly not going to give a him break

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Treliving played hard ball and get applauded for all his RFAs

I got to think the players/agent remember that when they become UFAs and it’s payback time. They are certainly not going to give a him break

In other words, Treliving is doing his job. Good agents don't give breaks in contract negotiations, and good Managers are always striving to save as much as they possibly can to retain the makeup of a competitive team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Treliving played hard ball and get applauded for all his RFAs

I got to think the players/agent remember that when they become UFAs and it’s payback time. They are certainly not going to give a him break

It's a business. Players/agents/teams all use leverage in negotiations when they have it.

"Payback time".

I agree they aren't going to give him a break. Not because it's "payback time" though.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's a business. Players/agents/teams all use leverage in negotiations when they have it.

"Payback time".

I agree they aren't going to give him a break. Not because it's "payback time" though.

Payback may be the wrong word.
What I mean is when someone was ‘nice’ to me before I tend to be easier on them. If they were tough and ripped me off last time, I would be extra hard this time dealing with them

Hey, I am bored just throwing out random thoughts. Sorry in advance lol

[Jiri Hrdina]

Well I do agree with your overall premise that there is not going to be a break for the Flames. This is the biggest contract Johnny or Tkachuk will ever sign. They are going to max out. Whatever the ends up being.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well that reflects on the pettiness of you and those that would be upset at a man making the best decision for himself and his family.

People may be upset but a tiny amount of empathy is required to understand that he is making a life and career decision, which is neither easy or straightforward. Anyone who has had to choose between taking a new job or moving residences should be able to understand that sometimes you just got to make the best decision for you and your family. Few of us have to choose to lock into a career situation and a city for 8 years but few of us also have the luxury to wait and see what the options are on an open and competitive market.

I appreciate your perspective as it is similar to mine. If he makes a decision to leave then that is life and I will be interested to see how the team accommodates his loss and moves forward.


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[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

…
Can't really blame treliving if the flames lose gaudreau. I also have more sympathy for treliving. I'm sure the "5 year plan" he set out with didn't include the top 2 highest drafted centers by the franchise to basically become non-factors for the team's trajectory (monahan and Bennett).

This is my take on his tenure to date as well. If Monahan stay the same and Bennett turns into a top six centre with the Flames then we are talking about a deep group at centre.

I think your point about coaching does require the caveat that one needed to be available and willing to work in Calgary. Also, I am hoping that Treliving has now learned the difference between his prior coach selections and seeing the approach Darryl brings. I don’t think Treliving has worked with a coach of that calibre before. I am willing to give him a break now as he sees everyday what approach a great coach brings. Hopefully when Darryl is done Treliving will be in a better position to weed out good talkers from people who actually know how to do the job.


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[Major Major]

All this real life talk is well and good, but it seems fairly simple to me as a fan.

Just compartmentalize the player and the person. Do we know the person? Not really... Will I wish him and his family health and happiness if they leave? Sure, you bet. In so much as I'd do the same for any other person I don't know.

Johnny the player though? I know that guy. He's got the most unique skill set since Datsyuk IMO. If he signs here, I'll be a fan for life, no matter how things play out.

If he leaves, I'll boo, jeer, chant we don't need you, whatever is adding to the atmosphere at the dome at the time. I'll also hope that his new team loses and he looks back on that decision as a mistake. Nothing personal, that's me being a fan. And a lot like he owes the city nothing, the city in turn owes him nothing.

This is sports. We're not supposed to be sitting around wondering what a player's wife is thinking or whether his in laws call the shots now. It's all a bit strange to me. He stays or goes.

Assuming it's actually about the money though. Which it still is, don't kid yourself. I think his agent will come back to Calgary at the 11th hour with a shockingly big number. Let's just say 8x12. They say that's the Calgary number and any attempt to negotiate will result in him leaving, but they're willing to sign it that minute.

What do you do?

A. Sign it immediately
B. Negotiate anyway
C. Call his bluff and tell him good luck.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Major Major

All this real life talk is well and good, but it seems fairly simple to me as a fan.

Just compartmentalize the player and the person. Do we know the person? Not really... Will I wish him and his family health and happiness if they leave? Sure, you bet. In so much as I'd do the same for any other person I don't know.

Johnny the player though? I know that guy. He's got the most unique skill set since Datsyuk IMO. If he signs here, I'll be a fan for life, no matter how things play out.

If he leaves, I'll boo, jeer, chant we don't need you, whatever is adding to the atmosphere at the dome at the time. I'll also hope that his new team loses and he looks back on that decision as a mistake. Nothing personal, that's me being a fan. And a lot like he owes the city nothing, the city in turn owes him nothing.

This is sports. We're not supposed to be sitting around wondering what a player's wife is thinking or whether his in laws call the shots now. It's all a bit strange to me. He stays or goes.

Assuming it's actually about the money though. Which it still is, don't kid yourself. I think his agent will come back to Calgary at the 11th hour with a shockingly big number. Let's just say 8x12. They say that's the Calgary number and any attempt to negotiate will result in him leaving, but they're willing to sign it that minute.

What do you do?

A. Sign it immediately
B. Negotiate anyway
C. Call his bluff and tell him good luck.

C.

He is great but he is not worth being paid the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by transplant99

C.

He is great but he is not worth being paid the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL.

I'm signing him at that number but it would hurt! I'm not saying he's the second best player, but I think he'd consistently be in the top 10 players that contribute to Ws. Basically means I'm trading Tkachuk though.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Major Major

All this real life talk is well and good, but it seems fairly simple to me as a fan.

Just compartmentalize the player and the person. Do we know the person? Not really... Will I wish him and his family health and happiness if they leave? Sure, you bet. In so much as I'd do the same for any other person I don't know.

Johnny the player though? I know that guy. He's got the most unique skill set since Datsyuk IMO. If he signs here, I'll be a fan for life, no matter how things play out.

If he leaves, I'll boo, jeer, chant we don't need you, whatever is adding to the atmosphere at the dome at the time. I'll also hope that his new team loses and he looks back on that decision as a mistake. Nothing personal, that's me being a fan. And a lot like he owes the city nothing, the city in turn owes him nothing.

This is sports. We're not supposed to be sitting around wondering what a player's wife is thinking or whether his in laws call the shots now. It's all a bit strange to me. He stays or goes.

Assuming it's actually about the money though. Which it still is, don't kid yourself. I think his agent will come back to Calgary at the 11th hour with a shockingly big number. Let's just say 8x12. They say that's the Calgary number and any attempt to negotiate will result in him leaving, but they're willing to sign it that minute.

What do you do?

A. Sign it immediately
B. Negotiate anyway
C. Call his bluff and tell him good luck.

A or B unless they can sign someone else good already.

[Jason14h]

Come back at 11.5 and stop signing 4th liners and 3rd pairing D as much

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Major Major

All this real life talk is well and good, but it seems fairly simple to me as a fan.

Just compartmentalize the player and the person. Do we know the person? Not really... Will I wish him and his family health and happiness if they leave? Sure, you bet. In so much as I'd do the same for any other person I don't know.

Johnny the player though? I know that guy. He's got the most unique skill set since Datsyuk IMO. If he signs here, I'll be a fan for life, no matter how things play out.

If he leaves, I'll boo, jeer, chant we don't need you, whatever is adding to the atmosphere at the dome at the time. I'll also hope that his new team loses and he looks back on that decision as a mistake. Nothing personal, that's me being a fan. And a lot like he owes the city nothing, the city in turn owes him nothing.

This is sports. We're not supposed to be sitting around wondering what a player's wife is thinking or whether his in laws call the shots now. It's all a bit strange to me. He stays or goes.

Assuming it's actually about the money though. Which it still is, don't kid yourself. I think his agent will come back to Calgary at the 11th hour with a shockingly big number. Let's just say 8x12. They say that's the Calgary number and any attempt to negotiate will result in him leaving, but they're willing to sign it that minute.

What do you do?

A. Sign it immediately
B. Negotiate anyway
C. Call his bluff and tell him good luck.

While the money is way higher than I want I still go with option “a””.

You go for it for a couple of years and then reassess. You can always trade him later for some sort of asset if they have to rebuild during his tenure. While he would hold all the cards for the trade I don’t think it’s hard to convince a player to leave if a rebuild is in order.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

While the money is way higher than I want I still go with option “a””.

You go for it for a couple of years and then reassess. You can always trade him later for some sort of asset if they have to rebuild during his tenure. While he would hold all the cards for the trade I don’t think it’s hard to convince a player to leave if a rebuild is in order.

I don't know about that. Getzlaf made it clear he was not leaving Anaheim after they entered a rebuild; Toews has been completely resistant in Chicago; it sure appeared as though Joe Thornton was content to play only in SJ in his time there. I think it really depends on the player, and that it should not just be taken for granted that he will choose to move on when the team is ready for him to do so.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Major Major

All this real life talk is well and good, but it seems fairly simple to me as a fan.

Just compartmentalize the player and the person. Do we know the person? Not really... Will I wish him and his family health and happiness if they leave? Sure, you bet. In so much as I'd do the same for any other person I don't know.

Johnny the player though? I know that guy. He's got the most unique skill set since Datsyuk IMO. If he signs here, I'll be a fan for life, no matter how things play out.

If he leaves, I'll boo, jeer, chant we don't need you, whatever is adding to the atmosphere at the dome at the time. I'll also hope that his new team loses and he looks back on that decision as a mistake. Nothing personal, that's me being a fan. And a lot like he owes the city nothing, the city in turn owes him nothing.

This is sports. We're not supposed to be sitting around wondering what a player's wife is thinking or whether his in laws call the shots now. It's all a bit strange to me. He stays or goes.

Assuming it's actually about the money though. Which it still is, don't kid yourself. I think his agent will come back to Calgary at the 11th hour with a shockingly big number. Let's just say 8x12. They say that's the Calgary number and any attempt to negotiate will result in him leaving, but they're willing to sign it that minute.

What do you do?

A. Sign it immediately
B. Negotiate anyway
C. Call his bluff and tell him good luck.

C. Remind him the team's objective is to win a championship, and even a team with McDavid isn't doing that without depth. No individual can come before the team goals.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't know about that. Getzlaf made it clear he was not leaving Anaheim after they entered a rebuild; Toews has been completely resistant in Chicago; it sure appeared as though Joe Thornton was content to play only in SJ in his time there. I think it really depends on the player, and that it should not just be taken for granted that he will choose to move on when the team is ready for him to do so.

All of those guys are Stanley cup winners . If Johnny brings home a a couple of cups , he can sit at center ice ,on a lawn chair , with a beach ball for all I care.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

All of those guys are Stanley cup winners . If Johnny brings home a a couple of cups , he can sit at center ice ,on a lawn chair , with a beach ball for all I care.

Ya...but what if he doesn't bring home cups?

Benn and Seguin may cripple DAL's next wave of great players.

Kessel's retention is only now coming off TOR's books. When he signed that deal it was 12.44% of the cap, which is equivalent to 10.26 AAV this year.