Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Icon

I just want something to happen either way!

Blessed are those who just want something to happen, for they will get their wish… good and hard.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If he leaves, he gets Forever a Flame like MacInnis and Nieuwyndyk. If he stays, he gets 13 retired like Iginla, MacDonald, and Vernon (I still don't get this one).

McDonald is more perplexing to me, but of course the franchise was a lot younger when they did it. But he only played 492 games (21st all time) - less than Kipper/Vernon/Stajan/Macoun/Conroy. Obviously he wasn't raftered for his tenure, but it's interesting to me because none of those guys I listed felt like they were even around for that long

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by OminousFlames

I just hope Flames fans stay classy, and not rip on their family, if he decides to choose to be closer to home. I know a lot of fans interact with their family lately, especially this year. In the end the NHL is a business.

I think there will definitely be hurt feelings — hopefully not against Johnny and his family personally — but the fact is that him leaving would be a huge loss. Fans have spent many years passionately supporting the Flames and Johnny himself, so I think it would be pretty normal to feel at least a little rejected.

Having said that, I came to the realization the other day that I would probably cheer for Johnny regardless of where he ends up. I don’t think I could say the same thing about another Flames player, past or present. Not Gio, not even Iggy. Maybe that’s just how I’m feeling now; I felt pretty confident during the season and playoffs that he would return, but I guess we can only wait and see.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Endorsements in the NHL are really not a factor. Even for US born players in a US market. He could get Philly ads maybe. The biggest endorsement recipient has been Ovie and that’s mainly because of his personality (I also expect he’s seen that dry up because of Russia). McDavid makes a fair bit. But all with equipment makers so that money is there no matter where you play.

"You will drive your new Hyundai or Subaru right to a touchdoooooown!"

"at Wilkins Hyundai and Subaru...we have Hyundai's and Subaru's"

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by dino7c

some people on here will just never give the Flames credit...3 players and a coach finished top 2 for major awards. 3 NHL team all stars of 10 league wide.
Yeah they had a tough round two, so did a lot of teams

Great regular season, no doubt. Credit is given to players who show they can elevate in the playoffs. If we are being honest with ourselves, the Flames have struggled mightily against quality playoff opponents for the last 5 years? Anaheim, Colorado, Dallas (bubble), Edmonton, losing 3 or 4 straight games in each of those series. I would gladly trade less regular season statistics (assuming they still make the playoffs) for better post season performance.

The argument of a lot of teams did is such a general statement and doesn't dig deep into what issues each team have to get to the next level. Now I think Markstrom will rebound, we have some quality elements on D and upfront the core has some solid peaces, but we also have some big issues. I personally don't think we can continue this strategy of substituting support players and hoping the core figures it out, when the core struggles the very same way year after year, we are spinning our tires.

Unfortunately I think Johnny is gone even though I think he is part of the solution. If that happens I honestly hope BT figures out a way to sign and trade, otherwise this is a massive fail on his part.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CGY12

I personally don't think we can continue this strategy of substituting support players and hoping the core figures it out, when the core struggles the very same way year after year, we are spinning our tires.

The only players that have been with the team through this entire stretch are Gaudreau and Backlund. The core has already been changed beyond recognition.

Unfortunately I think Johnny is gone even though I think he is part of the solution. If that happens I honestly hope BT figures out a way to sign and trade, otherwise this is a massive fail on his part.

When was the last time a sign-and-trade happened in the NHL? I can't think of one – ever.

There is no ‘massive fail’ when a player goes to free agency. The system is designed that way intentionally, and no GM in the world has the ability to force free agents to stay: hence the word ‘free’. Why do some fans have trouble with this concept?

[Vinny01]

I think sign and trades will potentially become a little more relevant moving forward as the 8th year has value when bringing a cap hit down over $1M. One of the reasons we don’t see it is likely due to the rarity players like Gaudreau make it to free agency.

Teams haven’t been able to agree on the value of that 8th year but one of these days it will happen. Hopefully not in this scenario (unless Johnny intends to walk)

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think sign and trades will potentially become a little more relevant moving forward as the 8th year has value when bringing a cap hit down over $1M. One of the reasons we don’t see it is likely due to the rarity players like Gaudreau make it to free agency.

Teams haven’t been able to agree on the value of that 8th year but one of these days it will happen. Hopefully not in this scenario (unless Johnny intends to walk)

Even if some team does, it has to happen before UFA and the p[layer needs to let it be known that he intends to go to UFA.

The value would, IMO, not exceed a 2nd/3rd round pick, and while that would certainly be better than nothing, it certainly won't be a difference maker.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Even if some team does, it has to happen before UFA and the p[layer needs to let it be known that he intends to go to UFA.

The value would, IMO, not exceed a 2nd/3rd round pick, and while that would certainly be better than nothing, it certainly won't be a difference maker.

Didn’t Toronto want a 2 or 4 for Hyman from Edmonton last year or am I miss remembering?


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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

Didn’t Toronto want a 2 or 4 for Hyman from Edmonton last year or am I miss remembering?


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Yeah, something like that, and Edmonton balked.

I doubt it will ever be anything that is a difference maker.

Presumably it could only occur if Johnny let it be known to two teams that were fighting over him (non-Calgary, let's assume NJ and Philly) that he would sign with the first one that could offer him an 8-year deal. That might create some value to Calgary.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If he leaves, he gets Forever a Flame like MacInnis and Nieuwyndyk. If he stays, he gets 13 retired like Iginla, MacDonald, and Vernon (I still don't get this one).

Are you kidding? BV(before Vernon) we could never beat the Oilers.

The only time I ever cried after a hockey game was when we were finally going to beat the Oilers. Up 1-0 with 2 mins to go and either it was Lemelin or Edwards going to shut them out and they score 2 in the final 2 mins to win in regulation. It broke me.

We should name our new building after Vernon.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Even if some team does, it has to happen before UFA and the p[layer needs to let it be known that he intends to go to UFA.

The value would, IMO, not exceed a 2nd/3rd round pick, and while that would certainly be better than nothing, it certainly won't be a difference maker.

Teams have paid a 3rd round pick for negotiating rights alone so to get the existing team to agree to an 8 year sign and trade it will cost more. I think a 2nd was the ask from the Leafs to facilitate the 8 year extension for Hyman but the Oilers didn’t want to pay it. The higher the contract the more cap savings are obtained with the 8th year. I can definitely see something happening one of these years with a pending UFA.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Teams have paid a 3rd round pick for negotiating rights alone so to get the existing team to agree to an 8 year sign and trade it will cost more. I think a 2nd was the ask from the Leafs to facilitate the 8 year extension for Hyman but the Oilers didn’t want to pay it. The higher the contract the more cap savings are obtained with the 8th year. I can definitely see something happening one of these years with a pending UFA.

Yes, and I agree that we may definitely see something happening "one of these years", but the fact remains, it hasn't happened yet.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Are you kidding? BV(before Vernon) we could never beat the Oilers.

The only time I ever cried after a hockey game was when we were finally going to beat the Oilers. Up 1-0 with 2 mins to go and either it was Lemelin or Edwards going to shut them out and they score 2 in the final 2 mins to win in regulation. It broke me.

We should name our new building after Vernon.

Vernon was great in 1989. After that not so much.

Beating the Oilers is not the measure of success. And if the first guy to beat the Oilers is the key, they should name the building after Steve Smith.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

McDonald is more perplexing to me, but of course the franchise was a lot younger when they did it. But he only played 492 games (21st all time) - less than Kipper/Vernon/Stajan/Macoun/Conroy. Obviously he wasn't raftered for his tenure, but it's interesting to me because none of those guys I listed felt like they were even around for that long

I don't think its tenure in terms of games played but that Lanny became the face of the franchise, he retired as a Flame after the cup (think Bourque, Andreychuk type legacy finishes), scored the tying goal in the Stanley Cup final, is basically the brand ambassador, etc.

Iginla was also the face of the franchise for indisputable reasons.

Vernon did win a Stanley Cup for us but he just isn't in the same category as the first two for me - he was a cog in those great teams like MacInnis, Roberts, Loob, Nieuwyndyk, etc. When you think Lanny or Iggy think Flames but Vernon I could see as a Red Wing who went to the SCFs and won a cup for them.

If we base retiring a jersey based on number of games played then it should be Iggy, Gio, Backlund, Regehr, MacInnis, Fleury, Otto, Peplinski, Monahan, Brodie, Suter, then Johnny in that order.

Vernon only appeared in a total 527 games for the Flames, left, and came back for a retirement lap and that's actually fewer games played the Matt Stajan!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Endorsements in the NHL are really not a factor. Even for US born players in a US market. He could get Philly ads maybe. The biggest endorsement recipient has been Ovie and that’s mainly because of his personality (I also expect he’s seen that dry up because of Russia). McDavid makes a fair bit. But all with equipment makers so that money is there no matter where you play.

Gaudreau has the typical hockey player charisma in front of the camera (i.e. none). He's not going to pile up endorsements even if he played his home games inside a literal advertising business.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Vernon was great in 1989. After that not so much.



Beating the Oilers is not the measure of success. And if the first guy to beat the Oilers is the key, they should name the building after Steve Smith.

It was in the 80s your forgetting ever since the Oilers won in 84 only the Flames beat Edmonton with Gretzky. Nobody could, so yes the Oilers were the measuring stick for success.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Teams have paid a 3rd round pick for negotiating rights alone so to get the existing team to agree to an 8 year sign and trade it will cost more. I think a 2nd was the ask from the Leafs to facilitate the 8 year extension for Hyman but the Oilers didn’t want to pay it. The higher the contract the more cap savings are obtained with the 8th year. I can definitely see something happening one of these years with a pending UFA.

Particularly if the team signing and trading the player takes some salary in return allowing a cap stressed team to add the player. This would have the potential to increase the base of teams to which the player could be traded, and could be attractive to someone in Gaudreau's position if the Flames were able to help facilitate movement to a team that otherwise might not be a player for his services because of cap constraints.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Gaudreau has the typical hockey player charisma in front of the camera (i.e. none). He's not going to pile up endorsements even if he played his home games inside a literal advertising business.

This is a good point IMO — not in terms of endorsements, but that Johnny is a hockey player first and foremost. He wants to compete and he wants to win, and even if he doesn’t eat, sleep and breathe hockey as much as he used to, I don’t think you can discount the hockey aspect of this decision.

That’s not to say the Flames are necessarily at the top of that list — last year was a big step but there is still work to do — but at least Johnny knows who is part of the core and how things are trending. Hopefully Treliving has a pretty good plan in place to bring back Johnny and Matthew, and can sell that to both of them.

Actually, my worst nightmare would be seeing Johnny leave for NJ, and then Tkachuk following him next year (I think he’s close with the Hughes family). Gaudreau-Hughes-Tkachuk will never happen, right? Right?!?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I don't think its tenure in terms of games played but that Lanny became the face of the franchise, he retired as a Flame after the cup (think Bourque, Andreychuk type legacy finishes), scored the tying goal in the Stanley Cup final, is basically the brand ambassador, etc.

Iginla was also the face of the franchise for indisputable reasons.

Vernon did win a Stanley Cup for us but he just isn't in the same category as the first two for me - he was a cog in those great teams like MacInnis, Roberts, Loob, Nieuwyndyk, etc. When you think Lanny or Iggy think Flames but Vernon I could see as a Red Wing who went to the SCFs and won a cup for them.

If we base retiring a jersey based on number of games played then it should be Iggy, Gio, Backlund, Regehr, MacInnis, Fleury, Otto, Peplinski, Monahan, Brodie, Suter, then Johnny in that order.

Vernon only appeared in a total 527 games for the Flames, left, and came back for a retirement lap and that's actually fewer games played the Matt Stajan!

Goalies don't play every game, so games played isn't the right way to look at it .... especially as he played in an era of tandems.

The Flames couldn't beat Edmonton until Vernon came around.
They don't win their only cup if he doesn't stand on his head in game 7 against Vancouver.

Those are pretty impactful historical moments.