Post Mortem : What happens now?

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The .850 goaltending is what did the Flames in mostly IMO..stomped? 4 of 5 games were tied in the third.

And let's be real the Flames won game 5 and got jobbed.

It's a fine line, both the Oilers and Lightning were a shot away from losing in game 6 of round one

No offence but this is a horrible take. As much as Markstrom sucked, did the team in front of him pick him up? Did they adapt and look at ways to help support him with the way they played in front of him? (Sutter is at fault for this as well). You get a 2+ goal lead in every game at home and blow 2 of them.

To reach the promise land you can't have such a simplistic way of looking at things. Did the Flames take a step this year? Ya sure, but they still look very far from the ultimate goal and were defeated in the same fashion they have in the last what 4 playoff appearances? Losing streaks when things got difficult against good teams.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by CGY12

No offence but this is a horrible take. As much as Markstrom sucked, did the team in front of him pick him up? Did they adapt and look at ways to help support him with the way they played in front of him? (Sutter is at fault for this as well). You get a 2+ goal lead in every game at home and blow 2 of them.

To reach the promise land you can't have such a simplistic way of looking at things. Did the Flames take a step this year? Ya sure, but they still look very far from the ultimate goal and were defeated in the same fashion they have in the last what 4 playoff appearances? Losing streaks when things got difficult against good teams.

You blew up the lead because of shaky goaltending
Yes the team gave up but it started with shaky goaltending. This is a mentally weak team. Has been for years

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How does that work? How does bad goaltending lead to more chances, aside from maybe rebounds (which wasn’t an issue)? And how does the team allowing more chances lead to bad goaltending? It just means that even a good goaltender will allow more goals because of sheer volume and quality of chances.

Markstrom wasn’t great. But aside from game one, which he won, shots weren’t simply going through him. The big complaint seems to be he didn’t make up for the team in front of him allowing 10 bell chances by standing on his head.

They are a mentally weak team. Their confident was shattered after seeing how their goaltender kept letting in weak goals

I haven’t seen too many teams won a playoff with weak goaltending

And it’s obvious if you allowed too many good chances, it would lead to goals. Vicious cycle. Once that started, Flames were dead.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Think we gave up our first did we not? For Toffoli

2023. You get Chychrun you make your top 4 D better. I wouldn’t be mad if we gave up a 2023 1st for someone like Chychrun.

[Roof-Daddy]

I'm still leaning towards the Flames trying to sell high on Tkachuk and get a #1D man if the Flames can get Gaudreau to stay.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm still leaning towards the Flames trying to sell high on Tkachuk and get a #1D man if the Flames can get Gaudreau to stay.

Who has a good 1D to give?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Who has a good 1D to give?

I don't know lol

Probably not many 100+ point 24 year old wingers on the market either though.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

They are a mentally weak team. Their confident was shattered after seeing how their goaltender kept letting in weak goals

I think you have that exactly backwards. They started letting in weak goals because they stopped checking, and they stopped checking because they had no confidence that the officials would allow them to do so.

If there is one thing that Woodcroft seems to have taught the Oilers, it's McDavid's favourite trick of grabbing an opponent's stick and selling it to the officials as a hook or a slash instead of a penalty against himself for holding the stick.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That wasn’t what happened here IMO. The Flames just weren’t good form the get go.

The Flames absolutely dominated the Oilers for the first half of game 1. Shots were something like 40-10, and the only scoring chance the Oielrs had was the one play from McDavid.

Then Markstrom gave up those two weak goals to Hyman, and the Oilers' entire bench came to life, and the tone of the series completely changed.

The Flames, to their credit though, got off to another great start in game 2. But another comeback, and the Oilers knew the series was theirs for the taking.

When your goalie costs you a game in the playoffs, you need your goalie to then win you a game back. Not only did that never happen, but he was the second best goalie in each of the remaining games.

Was losing the series 100% on Markstrom? Of course not. But your narrative that he was only bad in game 1, and wasn't a significant factor in them losing the series, is just baffling. He gave them life. And then he never did anything to change the momentum back. He was a huge factor in the loss. Not the only factor, but a huge one.

[activeStick]

Damn it. You reminded me how dominant the Flames looked to start Game 1. Sigh. WTF happened. I remember laughing while watching and feeling SO GOOD about the Flames chances.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames absolutely dominated the Oilers for the first half of game 1. Shots were something like 40-10, and the only scoring chance the Oielrs had was the one play from McDavid.

Then Markstrom gave up those two weak goals to Hyman, and the Oilers' entire bench came to life, and the tone of the series completely changed.

The Flames, to their credit though, got off to another great start in game 2. But another comeback, and the Oilers knew the series was theirs for the taking.

When your goalie costs you a game in the playoffs, you need your goalie to then win you a game back. Not only did that never happen, but he was the second best goalie in each of the remaining games.

Was losing the series 100% on Markstrom? Of course not. But your narrative that he was only bad in game 1, and wasn't a significant factor in them losing the series, is just baffling. He gave them life. And then he never did anything to change the momentum back. He was a huge factor in the loss. Not the only factor, but a huge one.

I never said insignificant. What I said was game one was the only one we’re goals went through him. The goals to Hyman were not weak. And how was Hyman in those positions to begin with?

Markstrom was not a dominant goalie like in round one. But the Flames were not playing a checking game and routinely gave up great scoring chances to offensive specialists. Any goalie will give up goals in that situation. See Vasilevsky.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I think you have that exactly backwards. They started letting in weak goals because they stopped checking, and they stopped checking because they had no confidence that the officials would allow them to do so.

If there is one thing that Woodcroft seems to have taught the Oilers, it's McDavid's favourite trick of grabbing an opponent's stick and selling it to the officials as a hook or a slash instead of a penalty against himself for holding the stick.

It’s not one thing

Buy IMO, Markstrom was the biggest problem

We’ll see if the team can be fixed so Markstrom can look good again. That’s a lot of work if he can’t improve himself

[Sec214]

Sign Johnny long-term - Make a play for Pasta/DaCat if he's available and get a Play Driving Center (Barzal-Chucky).

[Ashasx]

nm

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CGY12

No offence but this is a horrible take. As much as Markstrom sucked, did the team in front of him pick him up? Did they adapt and look at ways to help support him with the way they played in front of him? (Sutter is at fault for this as well). You get a 2+ goal lead in every game at home and blow 2 of them.

To reach the promise land you can't have such a simplistic way of looking at things. Did the Flames take a step this year? Ya sure, but they still look very far from the ultimate goal and were defeated in the same fashion they have in the last what 4 playoff appearances? Losing streaks when things got difficult against good teams.

This is the horrible take IMO

I am the biggest Markstrom fan out there but get real...he was voted a top two goalie in the NHL this season and should have been a major advantage. He was a major weakness. With good goaltending the Flames would have won all but game three.

Who wins a series with .850 tending?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm still leaning towards the Flames trying to sell high on Tkachuk and get a #1D man if the Flames can get Gaudreau to stay.

Hanifin prob has a higher trade value than a 1 year Tkachuk.

Bye bye Noah. The ark is leaving.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is the horrible take IMO

I am the biggest Markstrom fan out there but get real...he was voted a top two goalie in the NHL this season and should have been a major advantage. He was a major weakness. With good goaltending the Flames would have won all but game three.

Who wins a series with .850 tending?

Your reliance on the save percentage is leading you to a false conclusion. You have to look at the saves and the goals in context of what actually happened on the ice. And almost every goal was by a skilled offensive player put into a great spot by bad checking.

The Flames didn't get A list goaltending, like they've been used to all season. But then again, neither did the Avs, but they limited the net front and high slot chances as well as odd man rushes. The Flames don't win with merely "good" goaltending. With the Flames' skaters playing like they did, they would have had to "goalie" the Oilers.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Hanifin prob has a higher trade value than a 1 year Tkachuk.

Bye bye Noah. The ark is leaving.

Who do you suggest the Flames put into that top pairing left side?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Who do you suggest the Flames put into that top pairing left side?

Whoever we trade Hanifin for, that isn't average and completely sucked in the playoffs.

Him and Kyilly our 2 worst dmen in the playoffs and I don't think Hanifin was injured.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Your reliance on the save percentage is leading you to a false conclusion. You have to look at the saves and the goals in context of what actually happened on the ice. And almost every goal was by a skilled offensive player put into a great spot by bad checking.

The Flames didn't get A list goaltending, like they've been used to all season. But then again, neither did the Avs, but they limited the net front and high slot chances as well as odd man rushes. The Flames don't win with merely "good" goaltending. With the Flames' skaters playing like they did, they would have had to "goalie" the Oilers.

Three of the 4 losses were tied in the 3rd. With good goaltending, it's a 7 game series. If he had goalied them, it would have been over in 5 (the other way)

Yes, after the first period of game 2, the Oilers were the better team. But game 2, 4 and 5 were all winnable.

And if Markstrom is playing better, the team probably plays better. They had already recovered significantly by game 5, and should have won that one. With trusty goaltending, I don't think there is any question that it is a very different series.