Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by really?

Probably true, but when a team commits similar resources to lesser players there is no reason to expect anything beyond lesser results. Imagine if they were to go down this path, and they experience statistical retraction next year. Good luck resigning Tkachuk or Lindholm after that.

The team is in a corner with Gaudreau, (and soon to be Tkachuk) and retooling with a wave of lesser talent likely results in years of mediocrity. Like it or not, if the Flames don't resign Gaudreau they are facing a rebuild. The choice will be either admit that, and experience some short-term pain, or allow the mediocrity to commence and face this pain down the road. Hope to be wrong, but there is little to suggest that a team with an elite player will suddenly find itself once that player is gone.

I don't really understand the logic behind the bolded. If the rest of the team is so bad that there is no hope without Johnny, then there should be pretty much no hope with him [eating an additional 3-4M of cap], either.

2024 is the big pinch point in terms of asset management and defining the direction of the team.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames don't have to win the division though...they need 96 points and to be playing their best hockey in the playoffs. It's also impossible to predict until we see the roster...even then.

Remember the predictions from last summer?

"Seattle will be better"
Lol CP sometimes

#2 or 3 in the PAC seems like the easiest path to the Conf Finals compared to any other slot.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I imagine he will go hard after Kadri or maybe even Forseberg who has also been silent on the contract front with Nashville.

I am really intrigued by the potential of a Kadri replacement for Gaudreau. He was phenomenal this year, scoring at a 100-point clip. It would probably afford the Flames to deploy a 1-2 punch down the middle with him and Lindholm, and provide some flexibility to move out another players like Backlund.

It is going to be a super interesting summer, no matter what happens with Gaudreau.

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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I don’t think he would give the Flyers a discount but if they give him a better offer, I don’t see why not

I don't think anyone will get a discount. Whoever signs Gaudreau will be signing him to one of the League's biggest contracts.

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[Ferarri]

I haven’t been able to read through the entire thread. Last I heard there was a rumour that Flames made an offer to the Gaudreau camp. Is that still where things stand? No info on a counter offer?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nothing wrong with being optimistic but there’s a difference between acting optimistic and the way you have conducted yourself in this thread. Hiding behind the “I’m just an optimistic fan” shield doesn’t change that.

Feel free to place me on ignore then. I will continue to call out people on their bs.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am really intrigued by the potential of a Kadri replacement for Gaudreau. He was phenomenal this year, scoring at a 100-point clip. It would probably afford the Flames to deploy a 1-2 punch down the middle with him and Lindholm, and provide some flexibility to move out another players like Backlund.

It is going to be a super interesting summer, no matter what happens with Gaudreau.

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Kadri would be effective but this season is a bit of an anomaly for him and I wouldn't expect an 80 point player. He's a bit of an up and down player so I would hope if he was plan B that the deal would be 4 years max as he's going to be 32 at the beginning of the season. I would rather overpay him for 4 years than stretch it out longer.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

I haven’t been able to read through the entire thread. Last I heard there was a rumour that Flames made an offer to the Gaudreau camp. Is that still where things stand? No info on a counter offer?

Basically, that's still where things stand. Pretty much silence coming from both camps.

The other discussion seems to revolve around Philly. Dreger suggested that they didn't give Torts a 4-year contract just to rebuild and that they are likely going to be a big player in the off season. Gaudreau wasn't mentioned specifically, but the implication by many is that he will be their target and that is what may be holding up a deal with Calgary.

It's all just speculation of course, but it does make sense as much as Flames fans hate the idea. Besides having family ties there, he is also the premiere free agent that would be available. If that is the direction Gaudreau goes, I wish him the best. He gave his prime years to the Flames and doesn't owe anyone anything. He has said that he loves Calgary and the Flames and that he would love to stay, and I take his word for it. Sometimes that just isn't enough though. As many of us know, sometimes sacrifices have to be made in life to do other things you want to do. Many life opportunities also come with opportunity costs, and I am sure it is weighing on Gaudreau heavily.

All that aside, I have faith in this team and if Gaudreau does move on, I would still bet on them. I just wish we knew one way or another.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I would guess GMs would likely dive a little deeper than you're quick stats look up on NHL.com.

Who is he playing with?

What type of player is that?

Do we have a player like that?

The Flames top line generated chances that matched their goal splits, there was nothing fluky about last season.

Teams will be looking at getting Gaudreau into a similar situation and then expect solid production.

Having said that the hockey curve peaks at 29 for most players, so he likely comes off over the next few seasons for sure.

Does his production as a 26 year old and a 27 year old make him a 10M player?

The Flames top line (and Gaudreau) was spectacular last year as it was in 2018-19 . 2 years out of the last 4 at the 10M level. The other 2 years more at the 6-7 M level.

If Gaudreau plays to age 29-32 at the same level he did from 25-28 that would mean that he would have 2 more great seasons and 2 that would be considered very weak for a 10M player. That would leave his 33-35 seasons on a 7x 10 contract that would be a huge surprise/bonus if he played at a 6M level.

Him jumping in with Bratt and Hughes would be his best most likely landing spot if he doesn't stay with the Flames. Does Gaudreau deliver closer to 60 pts or 100 pts in that situation? Think: 58 pts in 70 games in 2019-20 playing with Monahan and Lindholm.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Does his production as a 26 year old and a 27 year old make him a 10M player?

The Flames top line (and Gaudreau) was spectacular last year as it was in 2018-19 . 2 years out of the last 4 at the 10M level. The other 2 years more at the 6-7 M level.

If Gaudreau plays to age 29-32 at the same level he did from 25-28 that would mean that he would have 2 more great seasons and 2 that would be considered very weak for a 10M player. That would leave his 33-35 seasons on a 7x 10 contract that would be a huge surprise/bonus if he played at a 6M level.

Him jumping in with Bratt and Hughes would be his best most likely landing spot if he doesn't stay with the Flames. Does Gaudreau deliver closer to 60 pts or 100 pts in that situation? Think: 58 pts in 70 games in 2019-20 playing with Monahan and Lindholm.

Except NJ hasn’t made an offer to Bratt and rumour has it they’re looking to trade him.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except NJ hasn’t made an offer to Bratt and rumour has it they’re looking to trade him.

If they trade him to bolster their D and/or G and sign a UFA to replace his offence then they could be well on their way to becoming a good team.

Hughes-Hischier is starting to look like a pretty potent 1-2 punch and are both locked up on bargains. Hamilton is the only other non-ELC currently signed beyond the end of this year - his contract is a little rich, but not a big deal since the Devils have such a nice clean slate to play with.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

If they trade him to bolster their D and/or G and sign a UFA to replace his offence then they could be well on their way to becoming a good team.

Hughes-Hischier is starting to look like a pretty potent 1-2 punch and are both locked up on bargains. Hamilton is the only other non-ELC currently signed beyond the end of this year - his contract is a little rich, but not a big deal since the Devils have such a nice clean slate to play with.

I agree NJ is a danger. But aside from younger linemates (who haven’t done as much as Lindholm and Tkachuk) and maybe travel, I don’t see much advantage for Gaudreau there versus Calgary. He already has decent D and goaltending and top notch linemates with proven chemistry here.

[Strange Brew]

Big yikes to signing Kadri to a UFA deal. Career season in a contract year on a superstar laden team.

Those are the deals you avoid.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Big yikes to signing Kadri to a UFA deal. Career season in a contract year on a superstar laden team.

Those are the deals you avoid.

That’s the thing. I like the player but the kind of contract he is going to get scares me. Forsberg might be a better target.

[really?]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I don't really understand the logic behind the bolded. If the rest of the team is so bad that there is no hope without Johnny, then there should be pretty much no hope with him [eating an additional 3-4M of cap], either.

2024 is the big pinch point in terms of asset management and defining the direction of the team.

If the goal is to simply compete for a playoff spot and hope, hope, hope, then I guess a rebuild is not in the cards. If the Flames want to compete with Colorado, it's not likely to happen short term without Gaudreau. It would be an uphill journey with Gaudreau, it's likely scaling a wall without him.

I'm not saying the Flames without Gaudreau can't complete for a playoff spot, but with teams like the Kings and Ducks adding young, dynamic pieces, the Flames could find themselves in a San Jose situation within a couple of years. The Flames seem to routinely adopt the philosophy of, "if you don't call it a rebuild then it's not a rebuild," but if you can't compete for the ultimate prize, and you're not on the upswing, what else besides futility or a rebuild can you call that?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I don't really understand the logic behind the bolded. If the rest of the team is so bad that there is no hope without Johnny, then there should be pretty much no hope with him [eating an additional 3-4M of cap], either.

2024 is the big pinch point in terms of asset management and defining the direction of the team.



#2 or 3 in the PAC seems like the easiest path to the Conf Finals compared to any other slot.

The Flames with Johnny got dominated by the Oilers and would have been destroyed by the Avs. If Johnny leaves, this team is probably a bubble team at best.

Even with Johnny I have a tough time seeing how they make a significant improvement next year. Everyone had career years and everything went right.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The Flames with Johnny got dominated by the Oilers and would have been destroyed by the Avs. If Johnny leaves, this team is probably a bubble team at best.

Even with Johnny I have a tough time seeing how they make a significant improvement next year. Everyone had career years and everything went right.

That's the other issue with forking out too much money for Johnny. Sure they had a great year but who on the Flames got hurt? They were as healthy as a team gets so most guys had career years.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Big yikes to signing Kadri to a UFA deal. Career season in a contract year on a superstar laden team.

Those are the deals you avoid.

Yeah this season was great for Kadri, but bad for any relationship with the Flames. Especially if he wins the cup, I imagine cash will be king in his next deal. Bad timing for a Flames team who could use him, and have historically tried to acquire him.

[Hack&Lube]

I'd personally go for Forsberg. We might as well turn into team Sweden if the Americans are leaving.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Big yikes to signing Kadri to a UFA deal. Career season in a contract year on a superstar laden team.

Those are the deals you avoid.

Generally those are players we do offer contracts to…

We’re still suffering through the pains of the Neal and Brouwer contracts (although hey - Brouwer is off the books now!)

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Generally those are players we do offer contracts to…

We’re still suffering through the pains of the Neal and Brouwer contracts (although hey - Brouwer is off the books now!)

Yep, lol.