Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No he doesn't and if you believe that you have not been following anybody close to Calgary. Both camps are not saying anything, there is nothing to report and no insider knows anything. I theorize he is staying, Dreger thinks he will test the market. Neither of us knows more than the other. But thanks for showing up with another snarky remark, you never disappoint.

You have no idea what he or anyone else might know.

Look, I am not saying he knows anything, I have no idea what he or anyone else may know.

But I cannot say with certainty he knows nothing.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You have no idea what he or anyone else might know.

Look, I am not saying he knows anything, I have no idea what he or anyone else may know.

But I cannot say with certainty he knows nothing.

So all the guys on Flames Talk that cover the team every day are saying that there is no news coming out of either camp and are keeping things tight lipped but Darren Dreger knows something? How likely is that? Anything he says is pure speculation, just like the rest of the world.

[Snuffleupagus]

Spoiler!

Calgary Stampede kickoff signings

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So all the guys on Flames Talk that cover the team every day are saying that there is no news coming out of either camp and are keeping things tight lipped but Darren Dreger knows something? How likely is that? Anything he says is pure speculation, just like the rest of the world.

News can come from many sources, not just from the Flames team.

There is the Johnny side of the equation which includes his family and friends.

You continually say with complete certainty that Johnny is as good as signed, even though you now admit it is based on complete speculation?

So, you are the only person allowed to speculate?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Spoiler!

Calgary Stampede kickoff signings

Legit though… it’s more realistic that he’s in town around this time as it’s also the development camp. He isn’t going to do a remote press conference after signing the biggest deal in Flames history, he’s going to be in town for it upon announcement. I’m not panicking until July 10th .

[Flamesfan05]

Well, the longer it takes the more likely he wants to test the market
It’s logical

That doesn’t mean Treliving can’t give in and sign him for whatever he wants any time before then.

[Moneyhands23]

We have heard the Flames have made the opening offer. I think the interesting part is if another week goes by without a counter. If no counter offer is tabled this week (not that we will really be told) that is very telling and BT should start locking up guys like Mangiapane

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The job of a GM is to sign your most talented player before his UFA year or trade him for assets.

Some on this forum argue that it is ok for if he leaves as you get cap space.
These same people also say the GM job is hard here as no FA want to come to Calgary.
So having cap space is useless if no big FA will come here.

This team lacks high end talent (playoff performance) so potentially losing Johnny for nothing is inexcusable.

A good GM in a market that has trouble getting FA talent never gets to this position.

And to make more good calls then bad.

If Treliving had a $9m/yr take it or leave it offer from Gaudreau's camp, and the ownership was on board, but he felt it better to risk the season as he saw the value coming down he would have been wrong.

If he felt Gaudreau would sign at some point so there was no point in moving him for assets, and he doesn't he would be wrong.

Those are certainly points in the tally to assess your GM.

But without knowing what happened last summer and what's happening now we really can't say he just let a player get away.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Cobra

I forgot thats the other excuse you use for his performance.
Any more excuses for getting to the possibility of losing Johnny for nothing?

Those aren't excuses.

They are logically pointing out we don't know the whole story.

The owners do though. They know what the offers were. They know what the trade options were. They know what they allowed and didn't.

If Treliving went out on a limb on either of a) Gaudreau's value will go down this year or b) feeling he won't leave to another team so getting assets isn't an issue ... then he could be fired.

If he didn't, he won't.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Why is Dissen-towner always at a ten?

[dammage79]

I dont know. I just don't believe there's any way around it that losing Gaudreau for absolutely nothing is a massive massive failure. Especially when you push all your chips in and attain the same result this core has given you time and time again.

I mean at the end of the day it's hard to fault the Flames for it.

It just really really sucks you're at this point going to likely lose your star player with your pants down and your nads twisting in the breeze.

I can't fault Tree for the situation but man, it's hard not to be a littler bitter at the ending of this season with so much to do and not alot of meat in the FA market to lessen the impact.

They shat the bed against the Oilers AND lose Gaudreau to FA, tough year that really takes away the joy of what they did in the regular season.

Get a good high and the hang over is just death.

[ricardodw]

so what would a player that was 30th 36th in ppg of player with more than 100 games in scoring over a 126 game 2 season period?

126 games 37 goals 109 pts -8 70 non-pp pts

That was Gaudreau heading into 2021-22

It is not that far of a reach that his previous 126 games will be more indicative of his future play than his most recent 82 games.

I do not see that there would be a lot of all-in UFA offers made for Gaudreau with expectations that he would be as dominate without career years from Lindholm and Tkachuk as his linemates.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

so what would a player that was 30th 36th in ppg of player with more than 100 games in scoring over a 126 game 2 season period?

126 games 37 goals 109 pts -8 70 non-pp pts

That was Gaudreau heading into 2021-22

It is not that far of a reach that his previous 126 games will be more indicative of his future play than his most recent 82 games.

I do not see that there would be a lot of all-in UFA offers made for Gaudreau with expectations that he would be as dominate without career years from Lindholm and Tkachuk as his linemates.

I would guess GMs would likely dive a little deeper than you're quick stats look up on NHL.com.

Who is he playing with?

What type of player is that?

Do we have a player like that?

The Flames top line generated chances that matched their goal splits, there was nothing fluky about last season.

Teams will be looking at getting Gaudreau into a similar situation and then expect solid production.

Having said that the hockey curve peaks at 29 for most players, so he likely comes off over the next few seasons for sure.

[Manhattanboy]

Just read this article on Torts presser as new coach in Philly.

https://flip.it/1Guj5t

This is gonna be very interesting. You have to think they are going for it. Don’t do it Johnny!! Stay!!

[really?]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I would guess GMs would likely dive a little deeper than you're quick stats look up on NHL.com.

Who is he playing with?

What type of player is that?

Do we have a player like that?

The Flames top line generated chances that matched their goal splits, there was nothing fluky about last season.

Teams will be looking at getting Gaudreau into a similar situation and then expect solid production.

Having said that the hockey curve peaks at 29 for most players, so he likely comes off over the next few seasons for sure.

All good points. I don't think the trio had career years, as much as we witnessed what happens when you deploy an elite player with players who are at a minimum significantly above average. In the past Gaudreau was routinely paired with a center who was not strong at driving the play and a revolving line of wingers including Brett Ritchie. Even with linemates who were reliant on him to transition the puck and create opportunities, he managed to be statistically relevant in the league.

As you suggest, I am sure teams understand this and the demand for Johnny Gaudreau is high. He now knows what to expect in Calgary, (at least for next season) so that is something that should bode in favor of the Flames chances to resign him. Regardless, any team who signs a player of this magnitude, and at this stage of his career does so hoping that the cap increases significantly to offset the cost of the backend of the deal.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Dreger said he would test FA and the Flyers would be players on Gaudreau. You are right, I am totally going the wrong way on this as a fan on this board, I should believe everything Gaudreau said was pure lip service, he's a goddamn liar and really wants to go back East because apparently he is still a child and can't be away from his parents or friends, Tkachuk will then walk for nothing a year from now, the team will draft mid draft for the next 50 years, probably from Houston. Do I fit in here now? I think I will just stay as a part of the optimistic minority on here.

You haven’t been optimistic though. You have been outright defiant calling out any insider or poster that states that there’s a possibility he will leave. It’s been kind of bizarre if you ask me.

[Roof-Daddy]

Even with a perfect off season (unlikely) I have a hard time believing the Flames will be able to replicate last years regular season success. How many players had career years? 5? 6? 7?

And they are going to lose some key depth pieces who not only could play solid Sutter hockey, but also brought the size, toughness and physicality that the top of the roster needed around to do what they did.

If Johnny stays, great. But even if he does I kind of hope they sell high on Tkachuk to fill a key hole on another part of the roster. Two wingers making 8 figure AAV's is not a recipe for success in my opinion.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You haven’t been optimistic though. You have been outright defiant calling out any insider or poster that states that there’s a possibility he will leave. It’s been kind of bizarre if you ask me.

You are wrong, the only posters I call out are the ones saying he is leaving. I believe the guy when he says he wants to stay and you are saying I have not been optimistic? Why is that, because many posters on here seem to define optimistic as everything going wrong? If that what makes you happy, enjoy.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are wrong, the only posters I call out are the ones saying he is leaving. I believe the guy when he says he wants to stay and you are saying I have not been optimistic? Why is that, because many posters on here seem to define optimistic as everything going wrong? If that what makes you happy, enjoy.

Nothing wrong with being optimistic but there’s a difference between acting optimistic and the way you have conducted yourself in this thread. Hiding behind the “I’m just an optimistic fan” shield doesn’t change that.

[Flamesfan05]

If Johnny walks, the key will be what Treliving is going to do

Coming back with somewhat the same team without Johnny would be a disaster

Either get a star replacement or complete rebuild is a must