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Old 06-16-2022, 12:22 PM   #3381
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This is not a strong point in my opinion. Flames fans were pretty ecstatic when Monahan signed his deal as well. I don’t think it can be legitimately argued that MacKinnon took a discount at the time the deal was signed. Absolute steal in hindsight
We would still be happy with Monahan's contract if his play didn't drop off precipitously due to injury. Not sure how else you would gauge leaving money on the the table than to see the reaction to the contract at the time.
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:30 PM   #3382
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Sound like lazy more than anything. Or you are at retirement age.
Professional athletes have short careers. Most would not do that
I don't consider myself to be lazy.

Most athletes do choose to sign for less than the maximum that they could command. Every year potential UFAs extend with their current team instead of going to market. It is just a matter of degrees.
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:33 PM   #3383
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We would still be happy with Monahan's contract if his play didn't drop off precipitously due to injury. Not sure how else you would gauge leaving money on the the table than to see the reaction to the contract at the time.
Let’s stay on topic

You are arguing Gaudreau and Tkachuk should be taking $20M less or 25-30% less than they could get in the open market. To strengthen your argument you bring up Nathan MacKinnon as someone who took a huge discount and is benefiting his team. It has been easily refuted that the deal MacKinnon signed was clearly a fair deal for both sides at the time. Mack went onto fulfill his potential and the deal worked out great for Colorado. Johnny and Matthew are not 21 year olds signing their first big deal. Johnny is in UFA town to hit a home-run for his last big full term deal. Tkachuk is still only 24 and has more options but could also benefit from cashing in on a career season.
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:34 PM   #3384
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Monahan had an 82 point season under that contract...it was certainly good at the time
80 point players in this league have been known to get 10M

and yeah Nate had 52 and 53 point seasons...his contract was fair at the time, lets see what he gets this summer...also as great as he is he has never cracked 100 points, I bet 8x11 or 12 is his extension
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:43 PM   #3385
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In listening to Steinberg from yesterday (...and Eklund today), it certainly sounds like New Jersey and Philadelphia have done their non-tampering best to let the waves leak out that they'll be ready on July 13th with some pretty big offers. This is of course not shocking.

I'll be pretty sad if Johnny leaves.

...and I'll be pretty upset if the Flames then don't kick-off a rebuilding effort. This team already wasn't talented enough (exposed in the playoffs), so without Johnny? Rebuild or stumble around in futility. Those are the two options in my eyes.
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:45 PM   #3386
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Philly and Jersey suck right now compared to the situation we would have here if Johnny returns.
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:46 PM   #3387
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You are arguing Gaudreau and Tkachuk should be taking $20M less or 25-30% less than they could get in the open market. To strengthen your argument you bring up Nathan MacKinnon as someone who took a huge discount and is benefiting his team.
I would suggest 20%. 8 something instead of ten something. I think MacKinnon left about 10% on the table at the time. Mostly I bring him up as an example of someone who is experiencing playoff success right now because he is earning millions less than his current level of play, and the Avs are a bit more stacked because of it.

I would also think about Chicago's Kane and Toews contracts, and how much success they've had since cashing in.
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:49 PM   #3388
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In listening to Steinberg from yesterday (...and Eklund today), it certainly sounds like New Jersey and Philadelphia have done their non-tampering best to let the waves leak out that they'll be ready on July 13th with some pretty big offers. This is of course not shocking.

I'll be pretty sad if Johnny leaves.

...and I'll be pretty upset if the Flames then don't kick-off a rebuilding effort. This team already wasn't talented enough (exposed in the playoffs), so without Johnny? Rebuild or stumble around in futility. Those are the two options in my eyes.
Well, we're already used to stumbling around in futility. I'd put my money there.

That does sound pessimistic, but the organization hasn't proven that mentality wrong over the years. If they can't draft a bonafide superstar, it's rare they ever trade or sign one in FA.

I'm ready to be proven wrong.

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Old 06-16-2022, 12:54 PM   #3389
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Philly and Jersey suck right now compared to the situation we would have here if Johnny returns.
If you're just looking at last season then sure, but I don't know about that going forward. I look at both teams as teams improving, and landing Gaudreau in free agency is a franchise altering move.

Philly didn't have their #1 centre nor their #1 (or #2, Provorov Vs. Ellis) defenceman all of last season.

New Jersey is coming out of a rebuild and have a lot of really good pieces in place.

They're also both "family" decisions, which is important.

New Jersey drafts 2nd overall and Philly drafts 5th overall...Calgary doesn't have a first.

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Old 06-16-2022, 01:09 PM   #3390
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I have little doubt that the financial parameters of a deal that Johnny would take if he decides to stay in Calgary are pretty close.

I still think that Johnny is conflicted a to where he wants to spend the next decade of his life at. I think he's been surprised with how much he's enjoyed Calgary over the years, and while he may have, early in his career, expected he'd head back east when the time came, it has become a much harder choice for him.

Agree with most of what you are saying here, but just because Gaudreau signs an 8 year deal is no guarantee he stays here for the duration of his contract. He could sign an 8 year deal here and still find himself in NY, Boston, Philadelphia 5-6 years down the road.
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Old 06-16-2022, 01:22 PM   #3391
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Treliving won’t be fired if he can’t get Johnny and Chucky signed but he may get extended if he is able to get them locked up
If BT let's his star player go to UFA and sign elsewhere he absolutely 100% should be fired.
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Old 06-16-2022, 01:34 PM   #3392
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Personally, I’m not worried at all about signing Gaudreau. He let his agent negotiate up until the last moment with his last contract. However, when it came down to potentially missing games he told his agent to just take the deal.

That’s why I fully expect him to sign with the Flames right before free agency starts.
He was an RFA (not even sure if he was offer sheet eligible?)...huge difference.

If he doesn't sign with the Flames he'll be showing up to a different rink with new teammates next September. Athletes bump around different teams all the time when they're coming up.


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He's got one year left.

The Flames need to either extend Treliving this off-season, or fire him this off-season.

Letting a GM go into the final year of their contract without an extension is just silly. That job should never be about focusing in on one season, so if they aren't going to extend him? Time to move on.
Disagree. It's a much bigger problem to do it with a coach. A smart org will have checks and balances in place for major deals...not sure what Sutter's contract status was when his deals started going a bit crazy? Most GMs aren't going to make dumb deals if they think they may be looking for a new job soon...


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I don't consider myself to be lazy.

Most athletes do choose to sign for less than the maximum that they could command. Every year potential UFAs extend with their current team instead of going to market. It is just a matter of degrees.
Most do it well in advance of that particular off-season, so it's a far different risk calculation.


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Philly and Jersey suck right now compared to the situation we would have here if Johnny returns.
The biggest difference is the strength of divisions. Calgary has a better 2 year window, but NJD looks better in the long-term. PHI is a wildcard...I expect they'll be bad for a few years, but I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't.
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Old 06-16-2022, 01:41 PM   #3393
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If BT let's his star player go to UFA and sign elsewhere he absolutely 100% should be fired.
Why do people say Treliving is going to ‘let’ Gaudreau leave?

Fairly sure Treliving, and the Flames, will put their best offer on the table and then it is up to Gaudreau. Along with his wife and maybe some family, It is going to be Gaudreau’s decision. Not Treliving, not the Flames, not Lewis Gross. The Flames entered this situation knowing full well what the risk was, for years no less, so it would be somewhat foolish to fire Treliving in the event Gaudreau chooses to leave. I would have a hard time believing Treliving would be solely responsible, so why should he take the fall? Appearances? The Flames save some face?

I doubt it.
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Old 06-16-2022, 01:53 PM   #3394
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I remember it looking like a bargain then too. 1/12th of the salary cap. He was on the rise.
You remember incorrectly. At the time MacKinnon signed his extension there were ongoing conversations that he wasn't even the best player in his draft class, let alone the League. He was not really "on the rise," but rather looked like he could be stalled. That same year, he broke through, and the rest is history. But at the time this was definitely not a "hometown discount." MacKinnon signed for market value.

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Old 06-16-2022, 02:02 PM   #3395
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If BT let's his star player go to UFA and sign elsewhere he absolutely 100% should be fired.
are you suggesting another GM would have forced him to sign? Flames will offer the most money...if he leaves its hard to fault the GM

9.5x8 looks like a steal now but if they offered him that last summer people would have been furious
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Old 06-16-2022, 02:06 PM   #3396
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If Gaudreau doesn't get signed and walks for free, does Treliving get canned?
No. There is virtually no chance that this will happen. Nor should it happen.

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Old 06-16-2022, 02:09 PM   #3397
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If BT let's his star player go to UFA and sign elsewhere he absolutely 100% should be fired.
He won’t get fired because ownership also knew the chances that he might walk as a ufa.
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Old 06-16-2022, 02:11 PM   #3398
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If BT let's his star player go to UFA and sign elsewhere he absolutely 100% should be fired.
There are far more reasons why Treliving should have been fired previously then there are here now for potentially losing Johnny for nothing. Even if you moved him now for neg rights you're probably getting next to nothing and it's not like the team was moving him at the deadline as a contender.

I would certainly say he should have ironed something out last summer when it was rumored to have been open for discussion, but it was still a tough spot considering the state of the team the year before and potentially having to enter a full rebuild if the season went sideways again.
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Old 06-16-2022, 02:12 PM   #3399
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If BT let's his star player go to UFA and sign elsewhere he absolutely 100% should be fired.
I think the team winning the division and a round of playoffs has allowed Brad to stave off being fired right now. I don’t see a team firing a GM after free agency opens because their best player walks.

Trust me I was very much on board with firing Treliving before this season but the team had their best regular season since 89, won the division for the second straight 82 game season, and won a playoff round for the first time in 7 years.

Brad extend Johnny he should be extended but if he doesn’t then this could be his last go with the team but I can’t see them firing him mid-July after the draft and free agency opening due to Johnny leaving
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Old 06-16-2022, 02:14 PM   #3400
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I would suggest 20%. 8 something instead of ten something. I think MacKinnon left about 10% on the table at the time. Mostly I bring him up as an example of someone who is experiencing playoff success right now because he is earning millions less than his current level of play, and the Avs are a bit more stacked because of it.

I would also think about Chicago's Kane and Toews contracts, and how much success they've had since cashing in.
You're wanting Gaudreau to take 20% less than he could because it might enable the flames to put better players around him. Or it might not make a difference. Maybe Tkachuk gets that 20% and nothing changes. Nobody knows and taking less doesn't guarantee future playoff success.

A player is far better off taking what he can get and letting the GM worry about the rest. You can love your team without basically handing your teammates your hard earned money.

MacKinnon didn't leave anything on the table, BTW.

Kane & Toews do not matter. totally different situations that are not applicable in this case.
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