Hopefully that's just a wish list, because there's no way they're going to get that kind of support in any reasonable time frame. Some of those numbers aren't far off what the entire US military has in its arsenal.
A week after you put up that message, you share a pint on Russia Day in the Russian embassy and celebrate their Russia Day with them.
Seems to severely weaken that message of unwavering support don't you think?
To somebody who is simple and unthoughtful, yes, I could see how that would weaken the message. To a thinking person, I believe that the benefits of going greatly outweighing the negatives are incredibly obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
Most powerful intelligence agencies in the world consistently getting info on Russian moves, seemingly from inside, but no, that Canadian staffer at the Russia Day party, that was the key.
LOL. Imagine earnestly arguing this and not being embarrassed.
So intelligence will help weaken the Russians, but let's miss an opportunity to gain intelligence - along with diplomats from other countries all doing the same thing - because we're worried CP's intellectual D-team will think we're there for a free pint of beer?
You don't think that all the diplomats from all the western countries who went to the Russia Day celebrations at the various embassies around the world debriefed after to see if they could put anything together to help efforts in Ukraine?
I read a bit more so changed my post after reading the person who went was sent by the government.
but to answer your question, possibly. I don't think the person going to the event was part of a coordinated plan, but just government stupidity or they wouldn't be falling all over themselves to apologize.
especially as noted in the article
"In the months leading up to the party, the federal government had repeatedly talked of the need to politically and diplomatically isolate Russia over Moscow’s military assault on Ukraine."
I think Yasemin Heinbecker probably has a rather sheltered view of the world and is in her own little bubble. From what I see she's a career diplomat who is the daughter of a career diplomat. She must view the world in an entirely different way than the average person.
Last edited by GordonBlue; 06-13-2022 at 11:25 AM.
I don't know if it is because I watched Burn Notice lately, but I am going to side with Sliver on this one. Never a bad idea to get a read or covertly touch base under the guise of attending a party. Especially with some other diplomats being critical of the war and resigning.
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Probably an argument to be made a lower-level person is more likely to slip up, anyway. Plus, let's find chinks in the armor. Surely all Russians aren't in favor of the war, maybe we can find some leverage with one or two.
Also, how do you guys think Russian assets inside Russia are developed? Like, on one hand you have people going, 'der we're getting intelligence from inside the Kremlin...wHy Do We NeEd To Go To PaRtIeS?' and in the same paragraph saying we shouldn't be engaging in diplomacy. Like, that's just so dumb. At the very least we need to be developing future assets, too. An embassy party is a great (and cheap!) way to develop relationships that can help us in the same way the intelligence we're getting now is likely from relationships developed years or decades ago.
You don't think that all the diplomats from all the western countries who went to the Russia Day celebrations at the various embassies around the world debriefed after to see if they could put anything together to help efforts in Ukraine?
Diplomats from other western countries went to Russia Day celebrations at Russian embassies? Name which country and where. Would love to see how Canada's action compares. Seems like an unsubstantiated statement to make but hey then again you seem to think that Yasemin Heinbecke is some super intelligence gathering spy that will give us the clue from a party to start a Russian revolution or something.
Do you think Poland had representatives in the Russia embassy to celebrate Russia Day for example, the same embassy that had red painted on it?
Do you think Canada diplomats goes to the Iranian Embassy to celebrate the
Anniversary of the Iranian Revolution? It's a trick question of course as Iran closed its embassy.
Keep at it, I just want to see how deep in this circular logic argument you have you caught yourself in you are willing to go in to defend an indefensible position.
The government did a diplomatic no no in the current global geopolitical situation, even apologized for it and made a statement deeming it unacceptable, but that won't stop Sliver on his glorious crusade to find excuses for the government.
Diplomats from other western countries went to Russia Day celebrations at Russian embassies? Name which country and where. Would love to see how Canada's action compares. Seems like an unsubstantiated statement to make but hey then again you seem to think that Yasemin Heinbecke is some super intelligence gathering spy that will give us the clue from a party to start a Russian revolution or something.
Do you think Poland had representatives in the Russia embassy to celebrate Russia Day for example, the same embassy that had red painted on it?
Do you think Canada diplomats goes to the Iranian Embassy to celebrate the
Anniversary of the Iranian Revolution? It's a trick question of course as Iran closed its embassy.
Keep at it, I just want to see how deep in this circular logic argument you have you caught yourself in you are willing to go in to defend an indefensible position.
The government did a diplomatic no no in the current global geopolitical situation, even apologized for it and made a statement deeming it unacceptable, but that won't stop Sliver on his glorious crusade to find excuses for the government.
Oh, bud, this is a little embarrassing to have to break it to you, but you've lost this argument. You're wrong and I've illustrated why. For whatever reason(s), you're just unable to understand the bigger picture. No matter. We all have our strengths. I do think you should flag "big picture thinking" as a weakness of yours in future job interviews, though. It would be very dishonest to present yourself in any other way.
You can't win or lose an opinion based discussion. The only losers are the people who have to read this stuff when they're looking for news on Ukraine's situation.
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Many social media users criticized the Iranian officials who attended the feast, saying never had such high-ranking political and military officials attended the Russia day ceremonies.
But Sliver...Sliver knows best and he says he has won the argument. Canada joins in unison with Iran to celebrate Russia Day with Russia, maybe they will do a kumbaya, have some Absolut Vodka and ask Russia nicely to stop mutilating Ukrainians while at it.
You can't win or lose an opinion based discussion. The only losers are the people who have to read this stuff when they're looking for news on Ukraine's situation.
Man who thinks things operate like they do in spy novels calls others out for big picture thinking.
What a goof lol
US intelligence getting stuff from the FSB but some low level attache at a party might slip up and give the plans to the Death Star. I mean it's absolutely comical.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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Oh, bud, this is a little embarrassing to have to break it to you, but you've lost this argument. You're wrong and I've illustrated why. For whatever reason(s), you're just unable to understand the bigger picture. No matter. We all have our strengths. I do think you should flag "big picture thinking" as a weakness of yours in future job interviews, though. It would be very dishonest to present yourself in any other way.
I respect your arguments, but continue to disagree with it. I think you are giving WAY too much credit to this person (Yasemin Heinbecker) and even more to the Department that they had some type of plan to extract info (at best) or simply to keep the lines of communication open.
I think this was just a bad judgment call to rub shoulders with those people at the embassy in the midst of a hot war.
My take is that political and economic isolation is the answer until the tide of war changes.
Man who thinks things operate like they do in spy novels calls others out for big picture thinking.
What a goof lol
US intelligence getting stuff from the FSB but some low level attache at a party might slip up and give the plans to the Death Star. I mean it's absolutely comical.
This is a silly take, this isn't the movies... you get information that leads to information, that leads to information.
Or you build a relationship that might lead to other relationships, to people that may have the information.
Leaks don't happen like they do in the movies generally, it's a long grind of building relationships and moving yourself into a position to potentially get the information that could help you.
And sometimes small bits of information really are important.
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This is a silly take, this isn't the movies... you get information that leads to information, that leads to information.
Or you build a relationship that might lead to other relationships, to people that may have the information.
Leaks don't happen like they do in the movies generally, it's a long grind of building relationships and moving yourself into a position to potentially get the information that could help you.
And sometimes small bits of information really are important.
Think about what you're suggesting is the decision they made. They go to a party, to develop contacts, to potentially groom and recruit and asset for an active hot war that already has intelligence piling out of it from seemingly high level sources. Much better sources. Please explain how that long grind is helpful when it's used on some low level person in Ottawa especially since they're starting the long grind 4 months into the invasion. When there are already much better sources of intelligence.
They ####ed up. That's what it is, not some long game that they're starting way too late to matter. That's a fantasy.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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Think about what you're suggesting is the decision they made. They go to a party, to develop contacts, to potentially groom and recruit and asset for an active hot war that already has intelligence piling out of it from seemingly high level sources. Much better sources. Please explain how that long grind is helpful when it's used on some low level person in Ottawa especially since they're starting the long grind 4 months into the invasion. When there are already much better sources of intelligence.
They ####ed up. That's what it is, not some long game that they're starting way too late to matter. That's a fantasy.
I'm in Information Security, so I can talk a lot about some similar spying strategies to what is used in hacking; however, I'm not a military expert and can just offer my view.
In my opinion, when you are in a proxy war, you try every method you can to get the information you need. Even if there is a low chance of getting the information at this particular event.
