2022 PGA Tour Thread

[browna]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So $200 million plus prize money? Over how long?

I’ll be real surprised if we are talking about this league three years from now.

Until this group of Saudis grow tired of the novelty of this toy of theirs. Then they'll go and buy a EPL team.

This is very little about financial return and more about buying and doing something that no one else do or buy.

[jayswin]

If i were to guess how it plays out - These guys go and make $20mil-$200mil deals to play there, many of which aren't making any money regularly anymore on tour.

The league will huff and puff about creating a rival league, but get bored and impatient of what it would actually take to seriously contend against the PGA tour. Then the players that actually matter will slink back into the PGA tour after suspensions/challenges/apologies after this league isn't around in 2-3 years.

[jayswin]

If anything, the players that signed will all be sitting really pretty and better off for signing. The low end guys het millions that they were no longer earning, the top end guys double/triple their current networth in incredible fashion and 3 - 4 years from now this will be a blip on their career.

Smart move, when you really think about it.

[Senator Clay Davis]

A few things:

1. Saudis already bought a PL team in Newcastle. In fact Newcastle's away jersey next year is literally the Saudi national jersey, just with the Newcastle badge.

2. This is not a money making venture, it's sportswashing, so they are committed to losing heavy here. Apparently 10 years of funding is secured.

3. Being banned from majors is really the only meaningful deterrent here, and I don't see how they can institute a ban, especially for the Opens. The "ban" will be LIV guys can't qualify on OWGR points, so only the exempt guys are safe.

4. It seems the under reported part of their strategy is trying to snap up younger up-and-comers, and amateurs with potential. Apparently some of the amateurs are even getting multi-million dollar signing bonuses. This to me is where the PGA might have some problems, not in losing has beens, also rans, and never weres.

But the whole venture is contingent on being able to have players, sponsors and TV partners telling us how great Saudi Arabia is. So until they actually start getting TV deals and meaningful platforms this is a fruitless endeavor. Not getting an audience will see the plug pulled far faster than hemorrhaging money.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

A few things:

1. Saudis already bought a PL team in Newcastle. In fact Newcastle's away jersey next year is literally the Saudi national jersey, just with the Newcastle badge.

2. This is not a money making venture, it's sportswashing, so they are committed to losing heavy here. Apparently 10 years of funding is secured.

3. Being banned from majors is really the only meaningful deterrent here, and I don't see how they can institute a ban, especially for the Opens. The "ban" will be LIV guys can't qualify on OWGR points, so only the exempt guys are safe.

4. It seems the under reported part of their strategy is trying to snap up younger up-and-comers, and amateurs with potential. Apparently some of the amateurs are even getting multi-million dollar signing bonuses. This to me is where the PGA might have some problems, not in losing has beens, also rans, and never weres.

But the whole venture is contingent on being able to have players, sponsors and TV partners telling us how great Saudi Arabia is. So until they actually start getting TV deals and meaningful platforms this is a fruitless endeavor. Not getting an audience will see the plug pulled far faster than hemorrhaging money.

re: point 2 We'll see how firm this 10 year commitment is. There is only one place from which that commitment comes and I wouldn't trust it. They will get tired of this once no one is paying attention anymore. Hopefully players getting paid up front.

I expect next to zero interest in the events themselves. These guys play exhibitions all the time and who carest beyond a small targeted market. If I heard Dustin Johnson was playing a round at my home club, I wouldn't go one inch out of my way to watch that.

I guess they might be able to play in the Open championships but that's only 2 of 4 majors. Masters will keep inviting former champions too I imagine.

[nfotiu]

Sounds like Ricky Fowler is next. He’s been pretty useless for a long time though.

Phil is trying to make some point about if the Saudis can pay this much, then that is what their worth. It completely falls apart though when the tour has no chance or intent to make money. These guys are basically quitting competitive golf to play exhibitions for the amusement of the saudis and their friends.

That’s all fine if they want to do that but they’ll be irrelevant ex golfers to golf fans.

[GirlySports]

one more thing, TRUMP!!!

LIV GOLF INVITATIONAL SERIES SCHEDULE
9-11 June: Centurion Golf Club – London, England
1-3 July: Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club – Portland, USA
29-31 July: Trump National Golf Club Bedminster – New Jersey, USA
2-4 September: The International – Boston, USA
16-18 September: Rich Harvest Farms – Chicago, USA
7-9 October: Stonehill Golf Club – Bangkok, Thailand
14-16 October: Royal Greens Golf Club – Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
27-30 October: Team Championship, Trump National Doral, Miami, USA

[Senator Clay Davis]

The fact he's known for months he'd be joining, and was guaranteed to get asked this, and he STILL could only go with "I'm dumb as ####, don't ask me" is utterly hilarious.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1534159530614996992

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Sounds like Ricky Fowler is next. He’s been pretty useless for a long time though.

Phil is trying to make some point about if the Saudis can pay this much, then that is what their worth. It completely falls apart though when the tour has no chance or intent to make money. These guys are basically quitting competitive golf to play exhibitions for the amusement of the saudis and their friends.

That’s all fine if they want to do that but they’ll be irrelevant ex golfers to golf fans.

Yeah it’s the equivalent of famous musicians doing corporate events and rich people birthday parties. Which they do all the time it just doesn’t usually become their full time job.

Can’t say I’m really going to miss any of these guys.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think we all wanted Patrick Reed to go to LIV Golf, so we get our wish.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1534496720872144898

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah it’s the equivalent of famous musicians doing corporate events and rich people birthday parties. Which they do all the time it just doesn’t usually become their full time job.

Can’t say I’m really going to miss any of these guys.

If those corporations were brutal dictatorships.

[Flabbibulin]

Wow, I'm a little stunned by this development. DJ moving over has started the dominos. Fowler has to be next? I think Bryson is making a huge mistake here. His wrist injuries and the lull it has put him in might be clouding his judgement, because I would think his earning potential on and off the course is still huge where he is.

For no other reason than the money behind it, this LIV thing went from hanging by a thread a month ago to a legitimate concern for the tour. It ultimately depends on where the broadcasting goes, and there is no way these guys get serious endorsement deals if LIV does not get a major broadcaster on board. With the developments over the last couple weeks though, I am wondering who might be considering it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Wow, I'm a little stunned by this development. DJ moving over has started the dominos. Fowler has to be next? I think Bryson is making a huge mistake here. His wrist injuries and the lull it has put him in might be clouding his judgement, because I would think his earning potential on and off the course is still huge where he is.

For no other reason than the money behind it, this LIV thing went from hanging by a thread a month ago to a legitimate concern for the tour. It ultimately depends on where the broadcasting goes, and there is no way these guys get serious endorsement deals if LIV does not get a major broadcaster on board. With the developments over the last couple weeks though, I am wondering who might be considering it.

I just don't think they are going to penetrate the US market, and without that, they are done.

This is just my theory, but I think from a consumer's perspective, the demand for golf is fully satisfied in the US. The Masters legitimately dominates TV for an entire weekend, and the other three majors also get a lot of attention. Add the Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup and that's 5 weeks a year in which golf is a serious player in the US sports schedule. For a niche sport, that's a lot.

The PGA Tour itself has spent decades trying to stage an event with a comparable level of prestige and cultural impact to the majors and the Ryder Cup, and the best it has been able to do is the Players (which is dominated in its time slot by March Madness) and the FedEx Cup playoffs (which are dominated by preseason NFL buzz. by practice!) The Tour Championship offers a purse that is four times the Masters. Which one do you think the golfers would rather win?

LIV is contemplating some sort of team competition which at least is a niche that is unserved. I doubt that the consumer will care about team competition outside of the international/geographical format. The PGA Tour already has a doubles event and nobody watches it. Who wants to watch 6 hours of four-ball?

Without the US market you don't get the prestige and without the prestige you eventually bleed out.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

If those corporations were brutal dictatorships.

Entertainers have been doing parties and private gigs for people like that for a long time now.

But I love the player's and Norman's comments about how the game of golf has been this great force for good in the world and this is another example of how it will help transform things for the better.

What a crock of sh**.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Entertainers have been doing parties and private gigs for people like that for a long time now.

But I love the player's and Norman's comments about how the game of golf has been this great force for good in the world and this is another example of how it will help transform things for the better.

What a crock of sh**.

Money will make you defend many positions you shouldn't. Like the NBA in China. When pressed, Mark Cuban thinks of as many excuses as he can and it eventually gets to, "We have to do business, we can't fight every atrocity in the world."

[chedder]

With Dechambeau and Reed it now seems like the golf villians' tour. Norman and Phil also wore that hat pretty well.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I just don't think they are going to penetrate the US market, and without that, they are done.

This is just my theory, but I think from a consumer's perspective, the demand for golf is fully satisfied in the US. The Masters legitimately dominates TV for an entire weekend, and the other three majors also get a lot of attention. Add the Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup and that's 5 weeks a year in which golf is a serious player in the US sports schedule. For a niche sport, that's a lot.

The PGA Tour itself has spent decades trying to stage an event with a comparable level of prestige and cultural impact to the majors and the Ryder Cup, and the best it has been able to do is the Players (which is dominated in its time slot by March Madness) and the FedEx Cup playoffs (which are dominated by preseason NFL buzz. by practice!) The Tour Championship offers a purse that is four times the Masters. Which one do you think the golfers would rather win?

LIV is contemplating some sort of team competition which at least is a niche that is unserved. I doubt that the consumer will care about team competition outside of the international/geographical format. The PGA Tour already has a doubles event and nobody watches it. Who wants to watch 6 hours of four-ball?

Without the US market you don't get the prestige and without the prestige you eventually bleed out.

Because team tennis has been such a rousing success.

The golf itself here is almost irrelevant. It's more about the impact on their PGA tour status and that's it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Wow, I'm a little stunned by this development. DJ moving over has started the dominos. Fowler has to be next? I think Bryson is making a huge mistake here. His wrist injuries and the lull it has put him in might be clouding his judgement, because I would think his earning potential on and off the course is still huge where he is.

For no other reason than the money behind it, this LIV thing went from hanging by a thread a month ago to a legitimate concern for the tour. It ultimately depends on where the broadcasting goes, and there is no way these guys get serious endorsement deals if LIV does not get a major broadcaster on board. With the developments over the last couple weeks though, I am wondering who might be considering it.

Fox seems like the type that would take it on. Maybe TNT?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Fox seems like the type that would take it on. Maybe TNT?

Can't see it.

Now if Tiger had gone, that would have changed everything.

[Senator Clay Davis]

US Networks have a rare bit of leverage here. If anything they can demand the Saudis pay them for the right to broadcast, because as Girly correctly points out this venture is really worthless if they can't get on American TV.