Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

yes, every weapon in the US is legally purchased, that's the defining feature of guns in the US, the country is awash with legal purchased guns some of which make their way into criminals hands but they all start bought in a gun store, pawn shop, Walmart or Gun Show

You are probably right. I wonder what percentage of gun store robberies make up for illegal guns on the streets opposed to criminals stealing legally obtained weapons.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

You are probably right. I wonder what percentage of gun store robberies make up for illegal guns on the streets opposed to criminals stealing legally obtained weapons.

Yep, as others have pointed out to CliffFletcher in response to his assertion "Do you really think the upsurge in violent crime in American cities is being carried out with legally-purchased weapons?".

Firstly, yes a lot of the upsurge is being carried out by legally purchased firearms and more importantly, the insane amount of legally purchased firearms due to gun culture in that country creates more illegally purchased firearms.

[8 Ball]

Yup, just the volume of guns is crazy. I heard the federal Libs are banning handguns?

[CliffFletcher]

Look, America’s gun culture and laws are ####ing nuts. And the lobbyists and politicians who thwart gun control measures deserve nothing but contempt.

But focusing on these high-profile deranged rampages in public places distorts the picture of gun violence in the U.S. Horrific as they are, they make up only a small fraction of firearms homicides. The great majority take place in distressed neighbourhoods, and are carried out by young men who habitually engage in criminal behaviour. The accounts below give a good context for common fatal shootings.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2...al-day-weekend

Even if measures to restrict legal access to firearms passed in every state tomorrow (a fantasy, but let’s pretend), there are so many guns already in the U.S. that it would take 10, 20 years for those measures to substantially reduce the availability of firearms. And the last people to be affected would be those who are doing most of the killing today. 36 thousand illegal handguns were taken off the streets of Chicago in recent years, and that has not stopped that city from setting records for shootings and homicides.

In the meantime, the people who live in the communities where dozens of people are shot every month want something done now. They want police arresting the bad guys. Which explains the disparity in the opinions shown below.

https://www.americansurveycenter.org...e-on-the-left/

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

You are probably right. I wonder what percentage of gun store robberies make up for illegal guns on the streets opposed to criminals stealing legally obtained weapons.

I doubt very many, why would you bother if you're a criminal? guns have no intrinsic value in the US on the black market and guns are generally well secured, heavy and awkward so not easy to steal

The supply of guns in the US is from gun owners either through theft or private gun sales, if you owe your drug dealer then giving him your or some family members guns is a quick way out of a jam, my guess is that's the main route

[Harry Lime]

Isn't it a good thing if there are substantial reduction of firearms in 10 or 20 years? The problem is so vast that it will take longer than any other country, but seeing big changes within two or three presidential terms would be fantastic. Should probably start now.

The thing is, if someone is seen with any kind of a firearm in a place that they are not supposed to have one (in Canada), the police get called. It's beyond cartoonish in the minds of people that a regular joe could just be wandering around packing heat. The only other countries where you see that are active warzones, or places where the government has militarily lost control.

[afc wimbledon]

Assuming you had public buy in to the law getting most guns out of circulation would be fairly quick even in the states, it would be the last 10 or 20% that would take the time, I think the first 80% would be dealt with very quickly

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Isn't it a good thing if there are substantial reduction of firearms in 10 or 20 years?.

Of course it would be a good thing. But reducing violent crime now - this year - has become a major political issue with the crime wave Americans are experiencing.

Fueled by gun violence, cities across the US are breaking all-time homicide records this year

… The rise in violent crime is an epidemic that is happening “all across the country,” said Thomas Abt, a senior fellow at the Council on Criminal Justice, and a result of three major factors: the impact of Covid-19 on communities and first responders, the fallout of the social unrest after the murder of George Floyd, and the surge in gun sales since the start of the pandemic.

At least nine major cities have broken their previous annual homicide records with about three weeks left to go in 2021. There have been 513 homicides this year in Philadelphia, higher than the previous total of 503 in 1990. There have been 230 homicides in Indianapolis, breaking the previous record of 215 set just last year...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/12/us/ho...021/index.html

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Of course it would be a good thing. But reducing violent crime now - this year - has become a major political issue with the crime wave Americans are experiencing.

But if the only answer to solving this issue is long term and one of the ones you brushed aside as being too hard a page ago, shouldn't we be hammering that solution now, even if every State won't be on board immediately and the results won't come for years?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Isn't it a good thing if there are substantial reduction of firearms in 10 or 20 years? The problem is so vast that it will take longer than any other country, but seeing big changes within two or three presidential terms would be fantastic. Should probably start now.

The thing is, if someone is seen with any kind of a firearm in a place that they are not supposed to have one (in Canada), the police get called. It's beyond cartoonish in the minds of people that a regular joe could just be wandering around packing heat. The only other countries where you see that are active warzones, or places where the government has militarily lost control.

The fact that wandering around with a gun in public is so normalized in the US is probably why mass shooters can move in on their targets with such ease and lack of scrutiny until it’s too late. The easiest first step is banning open carry.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But if the only answer to solving this issue is long term and one of the ones you brushed aside as being too hard a page ago, shouldn't we be hammering that solution now, even if every State won't be on board immediately and the results won't come for years?

I haven’t said those efforts shouldn’t be made. But even if successful the effects will take decades to be felt, and will still leave a country awash in firearms.

There are no gun stores in Chicago. And Illinois has some of the toughest firearms laws in the U.S. But as I remarked, even removing 10k illegal firearms a year from the streets has not made a dent in gun violence in that city. Because the U.S. is a federal state where laws vary by state, people can freely cross state lines, and handguns are small and portable.

https://wgntv.com/news/wgn-investiga...exing-problem/

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Here's the thing people forget about Chicago. It's on the Indiana boarder. The city and state can't control what Indiana, and places like Gary do.

Imagine if Alberta outright banned guns, but Saskatchewan was like "Guns for Everyone! Buy a new car? Here's a gun. Open a new bank account? Here's your gun! Successfully completed second grade? Here's a gun for you little fella!"

Then having the media harp on how Alberta's gun laws have done sweet bugger all in Lloydminster.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Then having the media harp on how Alberta's gun laws have done sweet bugger all in Lloydminster.

Build a wall and make the Sask side pay for it

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The fact that wandering around with a gun in public is so normalized in the US is probably why mass shooters can move in on their targets with such ease and lack of scrutiny until it’s too late. The easiest first step is banning open carry.

There's a big difference between walking around with a pistol on your belt and an AR slung over your shoulder. I don't think anyone's walking around like Rambo and nobody's saying anything or calling 911.

[DFO]

Originally Posted by chedder

There's a big difference between walking around with a pistol on your belt and an AR slung over your shoulder. I don't think anyone's walking around like Rambo and nobody's saying anything or calling 911.

Well that depends on the person’s skin colour.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by chedder

There's a big difference between walking around with a pistol on your belt and an AR slung over your shoulder. I don't think anyone's walking around like Rambo and nobody's saying anything or calling 911.

In the US you can call them, but they won’t do anything about it. In Texas, apparently you can be actively shooting kids and they might not do anything about it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Here's the thing people forget about Chicago. It's on the Indiana boarder. The city and state can't control what Indiana, and places like Gary do.

Imagine if Alberta outright banned guns, but Saskatchewan was like "Guns for Everyone! Buy a new car? Here's a gun. Open a new bank account? Here's your gun! Successfully completed second grade? Here's a gun for you little fella!"

Exactly. It’s ridiculously easy to get a firearm in many states, and state borders are ineffective at preventing the transport of firearms.

Chicago’s proximity to Indiana isn’t much of a factor. As the article I linked to noted, the second biggest source of illegal firearms in Chicago is Mississippi.

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Then having the media harp on how Alberta's gun laws have done sweet bugger all in Lloydminster.

But in that scenario the media would be correct that Alberta’s gun laws had little effect on gun crime.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

But we're talking about mass shootings in this thread. As I noted in a link earlier, the vast majority of mass shootings take place with legally purchased firearms.

So the question now is what will America do about it?

Apparently so far, the answer is politicians don't want to do anything about it.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

nm - yet another double post

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But in that scenario the media would be correct that Alberta’s gun laws had little effect on gun crime.

If the media is saying gun control doesn't work because of that example, they would be incorrect, as there isn't really gun control due to Saskatchewan.

That's the real issue.