Kicking motion

[Jason14h]

I am yet to meet a single Oilers fan who did not think it was a goal

That itself should tell us all we need to know . The Oilers fans - the most dilusional , arrogant , entitled fans in sports - all agree it was a good goal

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I am yet to meet a single Oilers fan who did not think it was a goal

That itself should tell us all we need to know . The Oilers fans - the most dilusional , arrogant , entitled fans in sports - all agree it was a good goal

Every Oilers fan I know except one has gone silent about it and many of them love to get on my case when I criticize the officiating or league. And the one who has spoken said he thought it was a horrible call and hates that it happened late in the deciding game.

[Roof-Daddy]

Christ this is all so bloody infuriating

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah, any Oilers fan who is using their head should want it to have been called a goal, because they know it was a BS call and that game 5 result has an asterisk with it, forever. The team determining the rules helped them out. Proactively

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, any Oilers fan who is using their head should want it to have been called a goal, because they know it was a BS call and that game 5 result has an asterisk with it, forever. The team determining the rules helped them out. Proactively

Most are falling back on appeal to the authority of the NHL, Bieksa (!) and other people who have no understanding of the rule and the terrible argument that the Flames have only themselves to blame for losing the series (which is irrelevant).

One thing few people bring up - every other way a goal is disallowed is also an illegal play everywhere else on the ice. Hitting a goalie (ie interference), puck with a hand pass or high stick. But everywhere else you can kick the puck anyway. Heck, there’s no rule that a D man can’t kick the puck away in the crease with a Rockette-like high kick. It’s a dumb rule.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Most are falling back on appeal to the authority of the NHL, Bieksa (!) and other people who have no understanding of the rule and the terrible argument that the Flames have only themselves to blame for losing the series (which is irrelevant).

One thing few people bring up - every other way a goal is disallowed is also an illegal play everywhere else on the ice. Hitting a goalie (ie interference), puck with a hand pass or high stick. But everywhere else you can kick the puck anyway. Heck, there’s no rule that a D man can’t kick the puck away in the crease with a Rockette-like high kick. It’s a dumb rule.

Yeah. Agreed, that’s a good point

To me, the killer is threefold

- he was on one skate at the time, and that’s the skate he was kicking with, not to mention so very many reviews of more egregious arguable kicks that were called good goals
- It being called a good goal, and the league calling in to overturn it
- the common sense view that the puck was rolling in, he made contact mere inches from the goal line, no Oiler could stop it, and the contact with the skate was immaterial to the puck crossing the line

As for them saying the Flames would not have won the series anyways, that’s why you play the games. The Flames couldn’t win all three required games that night, the goal was to win game 5 to force game 6. That goal would have put them in position to win the first and continue the series


It does put a damper on the experience of being a fan

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It'll always be brushed under the rug and people will always just move on if people always refuse to see what's plainly obvious.

And that happens every time, with reasonable people, you see it here right on this site and right in this thread. Go read Bingo and Shazam and Squirrel's posts.

"It's just the mad ramblings of conspiracy theorists". Sure, well, if that's your position that you can never call a spade a spade, that you always have to divert to the safe homestead of "nothing's wrong", then nothing will ever change, ever. Shazam requires literal evidence of bias. Well, of course that will never happen, obviously.

This league has a bias and credibility problem, a huge one actually, and it'll never change because a few fans will always be willing to accept it in the face of certain contradictory outcomes as obvious as what we just saw. A legal goal. A legal goal called legal on the ice. Four men from the NHL phone in and change the outcome. Meanwhile, we have video evidence (multiple... videos in fact) of the exact same play generating opposite calls.

Doesn't get more cut and dry than that, that is literally as good as you'll ever get.

Doesn't mean it isn't happening.

……..

Reminds me of an old joke:”You might be paranoid, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re not out to get you!”

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by McG

It’s game management.

I’m shocked…absolutely shocked that rogers employees support the decision via tweets, articles, websites and broadcasts. Green text for clarity on the preceding sentence.

I’m legitimately surprised that Campbell is still around. The guy who was so blindingly incompetent at running the discipline department that the term “wheel of justice” was invented somehow managed to get promoted to real time decision making?

To be explicitly clear, how people 200 “miles” away feel is entirely irrelevant. If the explanation was “we saw a distinct kicking motion on one video feed and that was enough to overturn the on ice call and the 9 other camera angles that didn’t show a distinct kicking motion” then that’s something different. Citing things like skate on ice or not, you can kick without lifting the skate off of the ice, etc., display a blatant disregard or knowledge of the rules and physics.

Game management means bias, and bias means not neutral.

For fun, look at the amount of rogers advertising in every oilers game. Take a shot of booze every time you see or hear “rogers”. It’s advertising, it’s influence, it’s outcomes, it’s money.

What else would it be?

I really like this post. The last point and the question posed after it is applicable to just about any aspect of life and offers a valuable lesson. If you ever find yourself scratching your head over a bone-headed decision and wondering who on earth would want such an outcome - 99.99% of the time, the answer is ‘money’.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah. Agreed, that’s a good point

To me, the killer is threefold

- he was on one skate at the time, and that’s the skate he was kicking with, not to mention so very many reviews of more egregious arguable kicks that were called good goals
- It being called a good goal, and the league calling in to overturn it
- the common sense view that the puck was rolling in, he made contact mere inches from the goal line, no Oiler could stop it, and the contact with the skate was immaterial to the puck crossing the line

As for them saying the Flames would not have won the series anyways, that’s why you play the games. The Flames couldn’t win all three required games that night, the goal was to win game 5 to force game 6. That goal would have put them in position to win the first and continue the series


It does put a damper on the experience of being a fan

Well put/summarized.

All I've ever heard from oiler people or pro-oiler people are projections.

You don't know anything for sure certain unless its given the chance to actually play out.

They didn't give the Flames the chance to close out the game with their deserved lead, start game 6 against an Oiler team with all the pressure on them at home, and see how that actually plays out in real time.

Dismissing with "they weren't winning anyways" is ignorance at its finest.

The four teams to come back from 0-3 were probably told the same thing before each game they siphoned back from their opponent. A team in these same playoffs literally just came back from the same hole and some of the games were close. Denying the Rangers one of their go-ahead goals vs the Pens could've been the difference between coming back or losing the series. You can't #### a team like that.

You have to earn 4 wins to take a series. But I'm not sure the Oilers earned their 4th win in game 5 if the Flames are rightfully up with a few minutes remaining, since the Flames were quite good in that third period.

It's bologna. And those type of comments from SN are uncalled for and stupid coming from people paid to analyze the game that is occurring, not conclusions drawn from their personal or biased projections.

This is why I'm actively easing out of my level of investment in this league. At some point, enough is enough.

Didn't think we would so soon draw the short end of the stick at a huge, crucial, important moment like Bennett in 2015 and Gelinas in 2004 had, and here we are again.

#### the NHL.

[Inferno099]

Video explaining rule and examples

https://scoutingtherefs.com/2021/10/...7-4-49-2-78-5/

Added the website article regarding the Coleman goal that was reversed:

https://scoutingtherefs.com/2022/05/...icking-motion/

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by sa226

Unless it's happening behind closed doors, it bugs me that there isn't even more of an uproar over this, not because I want some.sort of justice, but because it let's them off the hook for their incompetence.

As long as they can put out BS explanations that the media just takes and reports and teams say things like "We don't agree but it's not why we lost tbe series " there isn't a shred of accountability and they'll just do it again next year given the opportunity.

Bonkers.

I'm pretty much over the loss itself, but I get more pissed about this with every passing day.

I saw a tweet that kinda encapsulates everything in a semi ironic way.

Something to the tune of "The Oilers can never complain about the officiating again"

Larf

It's not just in this instance either. Nobody is ever able to criticize the league, whether players, coaches or management. It's so odd too, because the public consequences such as fines are so small relative to player salaries. Nonetheless, you definitely get the clear impression that players etc. don't feel they can speak their minds freely without some meaningful consequence.


Edit: I'll add to this how crazy it seems that players and coaches all appear to fear consequences of speaking harshly about the league or officials in public, and yet after everything Evander Kane did he is not only playing but was featured on the NHL website just recently about being an amazing comeback story. Another apparent inconsistency in the standards of NHL justice.

[The Cobra]

Even if for a second you can see some iota of a kicking motion, you'll never in a million years convince me that there was conclusive evidence that there was a distinct kicking motion, which was what was required to overturn the goal.

[Flames0910]

Thanks Inferno099, Coleman's quote is telling.

“I felt like I was in a battle and my understanding is you can direct the puck but you just can’t kick it,” Coleman said after the game. “I didn’t feel that I kicked it. But can’t go back and change it now. […] It’s unfortunate that was such a big part of the game and happened to influence the way it all went down.”

And based on the rulebook, his understanding is correct:

A puck that deflects into the net off an attacking player’s skate who does not use a distinct kicking motion is a legitimate goal. A puck that is directed into the net by an attacking player’s skate shall be a legitimate goal as long as no distinct kicking motion is evident.

Quite simply, these people are no good.

• Mike Murphy, NHL Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations
• Colin Campbell, NHL Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations
• Kris King, NHL Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations
• Bill McCreary, Hall-of-Fame Referee and current NHL Officiating Manager

[PaperBagger'14]

I find it really weird that 4 incredibly high ranking NHL managers are the ones staring at screens in the situation room and not, oh I don't know, referees (except for McCreary, formerly). It seems strange that part of their jobs would have anything to do with the day to day happenings in the league.

[PeteMoss]

The first 3 have been with the league forever. Desperately need new some new blood and ideas around reviews. It should be a wild mystery what way these things are going to be decided.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Inferno099

Video explaining rule and examples

https://scoutingtherefs.com/2021/10/...7-4-49-2-78-5/

Added the website article regarding the Coleman goal that was reversed:

https://scoutingtherefs.com/2022/05/...icking-motion/

“It’s as difficult a call as we’ve had the last few years,” said Campbell, who makes the final ruling. “We felt there was a distinct kicking motion and he propelled the puck deliberately into the net. […] We always try to draw upon consistency and, ‘is there any way we can allow this.’ Was he being pushed, was there a defection? We talked to [referee] Wes [McCauley] on the phone and after consulting with everyone we felt it was kicked in."

The highlighted is the problem and it's too bad they are too dumb to realize it. It's not about feelings, it's whether there was as distinct kicking motion or not.

And "We always try to draw upon consistency". WTF, really? If that's what you are trying, you are failing massively.

[Roof-Daddy]

I still can't believe they overturned the call on the ice and I still can't believe this crap gets swept under the rug.

Like being the fan of a small market CDN team that never wins draft lotteries isn't already enough of a slog at times.

Flames sure didn't do themselves any favors in that series, but boy did the league make sure to slit their throats as soon as the chance presented itself.

Corrupt dirtbags.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Thanks Inferno099, Coleman's quote is telling.



And based on the rulebook, his understanding is correct:



Quite simply, these people are no good.

• Mike Murphy, NHL Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations
• Colin Campbell, NHL Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations
• Kris King, NHL Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations
• Bill McCreary, Hall-of-Fame Referee and current NHL Officiating Manager

How did McCreary ever make it to the Referee Hall of Fame? He was God awful as a referee.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

“It’s as difficult a call as we’ve had the last few years,” said Campbell, who makes the final ruling. “We felt there was a distinct kicking motion and he propelled the puck deliberately into the net. […] We always try to draw upon consistency and, ‘is there any way we can allow this.’ Was he being pushed, was there a defection? We talked to [referee] Wes [McCauley] on the phone and after consulting with everyone we felt it was kicked in."

The highlighted is the problem and it's too bad they are too dumb to realize it. It's not about feelings, it's whether there was as distinct kicking motion or not.

And "We always try to draw upon consistency". WTF, really? If that's what you are trying, you are failing massively.

Oh I'd say they're pretty consistent at ####ing over the Flames, but I'm just a conspiracy theorist.

[powderjunkie]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1479307553486127109

BuT iNtEnT mAtTeRs!!!