[PGT] Flames lose in OT: Season Over

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

High danger chanceslast night were even, scoring chances were even. Markstrom let in one more goal than Smith (if you don't count the obvious goal that was called back).

If McDavid scored on the play driving the net like Backlund (leading to Coleman goal) people would be singing praises of how great it was and how unstoppable it was as he cut to the net and elevated the puck.

The numbers clearly show that Mike Smith made more hard saves than Markstrom over these playoffs. He had some epic gaffes, but so did Markstrom.

There is no universe in which an .852 save percentage is acceptable.

Markstrom wasn't the only problem for sure, but it wasn't hard to see how differently the Flames played after he completely melted down in game 1. If you want to talk about bad goals that is the game if his to look at. No pressure with a huge lead and he could keep his glove up.

He looked beyond rattled and times and I think that is what shook the mentally weak rest of the team.

The numbers show nothing about the save difficulty. How many 3 on 1s and breakaways? How many freak bounces to wide open guys at the side of the net?

Markstrom didn’t win the series or steal a game. But IMO he was still better than Mike Smith, who just wasn’t worked side to side at all.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by puckbrain

is still sutter a competent coach?

looks like he was outcoached...

ok

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Edmonton scored at will in this series, you have no idea if that would've been the game winning goal even if they had accepted it. Plus, the Flames would have needed to win the next two games too. The series was close but overall Edmonton was better by a slight margin. The world isn't out to get the Flames.

Although many posters are discussing the series in this thread, it is a Post Game Thread. Pretty sure that discussing a blown call (NHL network and even Oilers PBP agreed it should have been a goal), is acceptable and discussion worthy in a PGT.

As for the series, who knows. That call definitely had an affect on the game, hard to logically argue otherwise.

[Gaskal]

Last night there was a play where Noah came back to break up a 2 on 1 and Cuthbert/Hrudey were praising him, and the only thing I could yell was,

"He should have been back there covering in the first place! He only busted his ass because he was out of position to begin with!!"

Mind-numbingly stupid plays from him and Rasmus.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Although many posters are discussing the series in this thread, it is a Post Game Thread. Pretty sure that discussing a blown call (NHL network and even Oilers PBP agreed it should have been a goal), is acceptable and discussion worthy in a PGT.

And it may well have lost the series. Calgary wins, it’s 3-2. We all agree Calgary had yet to play a really good game. Who’s to say they don’t finally find their game. It’s not like they always lost to the Oilers this year.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Last night there was a play where Noah came back to break up a 2 on 1 and Cuthbert/Hrudey were praising him, and the only thing I could yell was,

"He should have been back there covering in the first place! He only busted his ass because he was out of position to begin with!!"

Mind-numbingly stupid plays from him and Rasmus.

The 3 on 1 goal where Rasmus was caught deep was discussed this morning on the radio, they were questioning what Andersson was thinking being caught so deep when up by 1. He definitely made some questionable decisions.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The numbers show nothing about the save difficulty. How many 3 on 1s and breakaways? How many freak bounces to wide open guys at the side of the net?

Markstrom didn’t win the series or steal a game. But IMO he was still better than Mike Smith, who just wasn’t worked side to side at all.

They literally try to quantify all of that in determining high danger, medium danger and low danger scoring chances. They apply the same expected save results and compare against the actual outcome.

If you look at goalies who've played 8 games or more Markstrom had the lowest save percentage in both low and high danger scoring chances compared to expected. Over 5 games Markstrom was objectively worse than Mike Smith unless you are of the opinion that those models are completely made up.

Markstrom had an .852 save percentage for God's sake. He was downright terrible. Not saying other people weren't terrible too, but that doesn't mean Markstrom wasn't putrid.

The goalie apologizing in Calgary is next level. I guess that's what happens when you haven't had a good goalie in like 15 years.

[sss1]

Originally Posted by puckbrain

is still sutter a competent coach?

looks like he was outcoached...

Is there a part of that interview that shows where he was outcoached?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by puckbrain

is still sutter a competent coach?

looks like he was outcoached...

Is this serious? He's one of the three 2021/22 Jack Adams for a reason. Yes as with most of the players he did not have his best series against the Oilers but he's still the 1st or 2nd best coach in the history of the franchise.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

They literally try to quantify all of that in determining high danger, medium danger and low danger scoring chances. They apply the same expected save results and compare against the actual outcome.

If you look at goalies who've played 8 games or more Markstrom had the lowest save percentage in both low and high danger scoring chances compared to expected. Over 5 games Markstrom was objectively worse than Mike Smith unless you are of the opinion that those models are completely made up.

Markstrom had an .852 save percentage for God's sake. He was downright terrible. Not saying other people weren't terrible too, but that doesn't mean Markstrom wasn't putrid.

The goalie apologizing in Calgary is next level. I guess that's what happens when you haven't had a good goalie in like 15 years.

Markstrom wasn't good enough in the series. Period.
But that doesn't mean he didn't have a great season and isn't a good #1 going forward.

As much as you want to yell at people for goalie apologizing, you have had a weird thing against Markstrom all season. I get you are feeling that the playoff performance validates that. But i don't see it that way.

He's a good #1 goalie. I rank him in the 5-10 range in the league.

[Flame On]

Not excusing the poor play in front of Markstrom (there was plenty). But I do feel the team sort of unraveled in front of him in part because their structure was broken because the keeper and saves they were used to, were gone.

Now they can't play their usual game, because they always need to be aware behind them or they panic and over cover one player, or try and do too much individually. Instead of their usual game which is confident and structured.

We've seen it in past iterations of the Flames with poor keeping, it just makes the team in front anxious and frankly play like crap.

And it's not like they were expecting that with his amazing play against Dallas.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by puckbrain

is still sutter a competent coach?

looks like he was outcoached...

Sutter is a great coach. Trade Johnny and Tkachuk for McDavid and Draisaitl between these two teams and the Flames would be through to round 3 now. The Oilers secondary scoring stepped up against the Flames too, but that whole team, including their coach, is riding in the wake of two phenomenal players, each of whom is playing at a pace to score more than Gretzky ever did in a single playoffs. Woodcroft was definitely not the difference in that series.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Not excusing the poor play in front of Markstrom (there was plenty). But I do feel the team sort of unraveled in front of him in part because their structure was broken because the keeper and saves they were used to, were gone.

Now they can't play their usual game, because they always need to be aware behind them or they panic and over cover one player, or try and do too much individually. Instead of their usual game which is confident and structured.

We've seen it in past iterations of the Flames with poor keeping, it just makes the team in front anxious and frankly play like crap.

And it's not like they were expecting that with his amazing play against Dallas.

I don’t know. I don’t think a team worried about their goaltending and in panic mode gives up a dozen odd man rushes per game caused by bad defence pinching and lazy, errant passes.

[MikeMc]

The stage and the situation seems to much for some/most of them this round - that's my take away. But it's a learning process, which Sutter has said all year. This team/culture needs to gain experiences so they can figure out how to win. Painful as that is to fans, I don't think he's wrong.

Against Edmonton: Markstrom struggled. The entire dcore struggled. Outside of the Backlund line, the forwards struggled.

The Flames did not look like the same Flames team from the reg season or the Dallas series.

Get pissed about it, learn from it, improve and let's run it back.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don’t know. I don’t think a team worried about their goaltending and in panic mode gives up a dozen odd man rushes per game caused by bad defence pinching and lazy, errant passes.

If anything it's going to make them more defensive and scared to take chances. They took chances but they were stupid chances.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by MikeMc

The stage and the situation seems to much for some/most of them this round - that's my take away. But it's a learning process, which Sutter has said all year. This team/culture needs to gain experiences so they can figure out how to win. Painful as that is to fans, I don't think he's wrong.

Fair enough but I think this team is going to look so different next year that all that experience is going to be flung all around the league. We'll be right back at square one. The only thing Tre can do is try use all that cap space to bring in experience.

[Kipper_3434]

Flames played an awkward combination of passive and over-aggressive hockey that was pretty brutal to watch. Played like an unskilled team and got the expected result. Hope next season is good.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well I get CBC for free so I might check in when they are getting pounded...Sportsnet is cancelled/pirated from now on

Mario for me from now on. Not only cancelling SN, but my Satellite TV as well. I only watch hockey, so as long as I can find a stream, I'm happy...if I continue to watch. I'm so fed up with the NHL, the sh*t reffing, the betting and ads, and the mafia rulings that I'm just done.

This seemed like the Flames best shot and even though they did not play their best last night, getting jobbed on yet another goal that should have counted (it was going in the net regardless) simply robbed them of the opportunity to come back in the series.

Watching no more. Hoping someone creams the Oilers and really don't care. As soon as the BoA was announced I resigned myself to endless SN trash and the fact that the league would find a way to get McJesus more ice time. And so it came to pass.

Blech.

[Bourque's Twin]

You're not winning the Stanley Cup if you play like this.

Game 1 was a statement.

Game 2 started as a statement and then the team collapsed. No excuses from one of the best defensive hockey teams and top goalies.

Now, instead of it being 2-0 going into Edmonton, it's 1-1.

Game 3 changed it all, and I was in attendance. The Flames couldn't get anything going and the Oilers completely turned the series around.

But, if the Flames won game 2, and gave up both in Edmonton, you're coming home 2-2 with home ice and it's not that big of a deal.

The game 2 collapse took all the wind out of the Flames' sails and changed the momentum in the series. The Flames were chasing from that point on.

The no goal call was complete BS, and the Flames should be going into game 6 right now, but they would've had to turn everything around to deserve to come out of this series.

[ComixZone]

We can question this or that or whatever but at the end of the day the difference in the series was McDavid and Draisaitl.

We don’t have talent on that level, and won’t have talent on that level without drafting where the Oilers drafted - 1st and 3rd overall. It’s just very simple - the better talent won out.

Flames did their best with the tools they had. Management bolstered the roster nicely, and had a clear plan right from last summer - and it worked. Sutter maximized every drop of sweat from his players. We had killer individual performances from everyone on the roster.

…and none of that matters at the end of the day if the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. The Flames do not have the foundation required to do so. We just bumped up against the reality of winning in the NHL. That’s it, that’s all.