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Old 05-25-2022, 09:57 AM   #1041
Erick Estrada
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
4 more years at 6M won't be an issue. Teams would line up to get a legitimate proven #1 goalie at that rate.

Doesn't mean he hasn't played poorly this series. He has.
But it doesn't mean he's not a legit #1.
He's the least of the team's issues going forward as it's only one team that's kryptonite for him. The development of Wolf will ultimately determine if Markstrom finishes this contract as a Flame. If he has another year in the AHL like he did this season he's ready to graduate as Markstrom's backup and take the next step and to his credit so far in his young career no step has been too large for him.
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:00 AM   #1042
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The rival that you've faced once in the last 30 years in the playoffs.
You can't toss away Markstrom on that basis.
There's also the 13 regular season BoA games where Markström has a combined SV% of .884.

But again, try the other goalie. Then we'd know if we have a serious problem or just a weird situation where the backup happens to be better against that one team.
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:06 AM   #1043
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I don't want someone on my team who drops a steaming turd at centre ice during our biggest playoff series in almost 20 years.

The Flames were an entirely different team in game 1 until he started letting in Hyman wrist shots that a junior B goalie would save. He has looked absolutely shaken at times, and I think people underestimate how hard it is to play in front of that.
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:25 AM   #1044
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Even though Markstrom has not been good in this series I still think he has what it takes to play well in the playoffs.

I think the issue with the Flames goes back to the debate of what this team needs the most. IMO it was and it keeps getting proven every year when they lose in the playoffs they need a 2 way norris calibre dman.

Tanev is the only dman they have that is sound positionanally on a consitent basis - but he is not going to produce any offence and is not a 25 per night type of dman

Andersson and Hanifin are very good but they have shown they are not capable of matching up against a line like McDavid - Draisaitl - Kane. Quality 2nd pairing

Gudbrannson is ok positionally but he is just a depth dman and is ok on your 3rd pairing

Zadorov and Kylington both bring good things to the table but they both are prone to unforced turnovers and under pressure more turnovers. In the playoffs the bad is more than offsetting the good. I never seen 2 dman with the puck on their stick in front of their own goalie sit and think about a pass for what seems like minutes while the other team is trying to strip them of the puck.

The Flames have had so many times where the fail to get it out and turnovers at the blue line are killing them. Getting lost in transition is also the other theme.

Turnovers at the blueline and transition goals where the goal scorer is literally standing on top of Markstrom alone account for almost all of the Oilers goals. The only even strength goals that weren't 1 or the other were ones Markstrom would like to have back.

The last time the Flames looked this bad in the playoffs they got torched by Mackinnon - Rantanen - Landeskog. They just don't have a dman that can match up against these types of players.

Sutter can take alot of blame too as refusing to match up and refusing to defend over check against the McDavid line cost us early in the series.

Last night was the first night we started sitting back when Mcdavid is on the ice and if you remove the shorthanded empty net scenario Mcdavid had 1 point and it was the least impactful game he had so far. Unfortunately we were already down 2 to 1 in the series when we finally slowed up Mcdavid and we decided to gift Nuge 2 goals on turnovers
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:53 AM   #1045
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I wonder if trading Markstrom is a better move for the team in terms of keeping overall talent.
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:49 AM   #1046
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I wonder if trading Markstrom is a better move for the team in terms of keeping overall talent.
There are better options to trade IMO

These players have been low impact players or even a liability this playoffs in both series:

Mangiapane
Toffolli
Dube
Monahan
Lucic
Kylington
Zadorov

Only Zadorov is a ufa but the rest all make more money than what they bring to the table in the playoffs

Not saying trade all but some of these guys are players that their deals are short term enough they can be moved or young enough they have value even at an overpriced contract

Mangiapane and Kylington deals are unknown at this point but if they out price themselves maybe it’s ok to move on. If not then using a prospect or pick to get rid of monahan or lucic is all that is needed to create cap space to move forward

Stockton has a few pieces that could be ready to go next year. Pelletier and Mackey could be good replacements for guys moved out at a fifth the cap hit.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:06 PM   #1047
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There are better options to trade IMO

These players have been low impact players or even a liability this playoffs in both series:

Mangiapane
Toffolli
Dube
Monahan
Lucic
Kylington
Zadorov

Only Zadorov is a ufa but the rest all make more money than what they bring to the table in the playoffs

Not saying trade all but some of these guys are players that their deals are short term enough they can be moved or young enough they have value even at an overpriced contract

Mangiapane and Kylington deals are unknown at this point but if they out price themselves maybe it’s ok to move on. If not then using a prospect or pick to get rid of monahan or lucic is all that is needed to create cap space to move forward

Stockton has a few pieces that could be ready to go next year. Pelletier and Mackey could be good replacements for guys moved out at a fifth the cap hit.
Mangiapane - Will be accepting a MUCH lower offer than his regular season implied
Toffolli - will play out his contract
Dube - who knows
Monahan - he's probably done as an impact player
Lucic - i bet he's a buyout. Maybe not if we go into a rebuild
Kylington - he needs to be reliable and consistent. probably not going to happen, so he's a good trade piece on a low ceiling player that other teams might think they can fix.
Zadorov - thursday may be his last game as a flame
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:44 PM   #1048
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There's also the 13 regular season BoA games where Markström has a combined SV% of .884.

But again, try the other goalie. Then we'd know if we have a serious problem or just a weird situation where the backup happens to be better against that one team.
Yeah, people need to stop pretending Markstrom’s play against the Oilers has been an issue in just this series. I don’t know how many more sub-par games it will take to affirm in their eyes that it’s a problem. Three more? Six?

That doesn’t mean it’s the only reason this team has struggled. But it’s the biggest reason.

Honestly, what’s the downside of going with Vladar at this point? That he might play even worse than Markstrom? To do that, he would have to play worse than any other goalie in the playoffs so far. And if he does? <shrug>

Alternatively, Vladar might play average. Which would be a big boost to the Flames’ fortunes.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:49 PM   #1049
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He's the least of the team's issues going forward as it's only one team that's kryptonite for him. The development of Wolf will ultimately determine if Markstrom finishes this contract as a Flame. If he has another year in the AHL like he did this season he's ready to graduate as Markstrom's backup and take the next step and to his credit so far in his young career no step has been too large for him.
Hey my apologies for thinking you’re putting it all on Markstrom.

“Him” means the Flames, I got it now.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:50 PM   #1050
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Yeah, people need to stop pretending Markstrom’s play against the Oilers has been an issue in just this series. I don’t know how many more sub-par games it will take to affirm in their eyes that it’s a problem. Three more? Six?

That doesn’t mean it’s the only reason this team has struggled. But it’s the biggest reason.

Honestly, what’s the downside of going with Vladar at this point? That he might play even worse than Markstrom? To do that, he would have to play worse than any other goalie in the playoffs so far. And if he does? <shrug>

Alternatively, Vladar might play average. Which would be a big boost to the Flames’ fortunes.
Are you saying Markstrom wasn't good against Dallas?
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:55 PM   #1051
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Are you saying Markstrom wasn't good against Dallas?
…Markstrom’s play against the Oilers..
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:59 PM   #1052
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Hey my apologies for thinking you’re putting it all on Markstrom.

“Him” means the Flames, I got it now.
You are grasping at straws here purposely misconstruing separate posts. Grow up.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:00 PM   #1053
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Yeah, people need to stop pretending Markstrom’s play against the Oilers has been an issue in just this series. I don’t know how many more sub-par games it will take to affirm in their eyes that it’s a problem. Three more? Six?

That doesn’t mean it’s the only reason this team has struggled. But it’s the biggest reason.

Honestly, what’s the downside of going with Vladar at this point? That he might play even worse than Markstrom? To do that, he would have to play worse than any other goalie in the playoffs so far. And if he does? <shrug>

Alternatively, Vladar might play average. Which would be a big boost to the Flames’ fortunes.
Vladar should’ve played Game 4, that’s on Sutter.

What’s the point of having a good backup if he’s not gonna play when the starter needs help? … so bizarre to me.

The team doesn’t need the goalie to steal any games… just be average!! … Marky is struggling, so let Vladar help him out… it’s a team game.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:01 PM   #1054
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Hasn't been the better goalie in either series, not a recipe for success in the post season.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:06 PM   #1055
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Marky can’t cost the team any more games obviously and I think he needs to steal 1 in order to win the series
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:11 PM   #1056
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Even if the Flames wanted to trade Markstrom, I don't think they could because of his full NMC.

But in terms of timing, now would be a better time to do it than ever. And by "now" I mean this postseason. As much as I don't like his contract, I think he would have quite a bit of value at the moment.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:13 PM   #1057
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Even if the Flames wanted to trade Markstrom, I don't think they could because of his full NMC.

But in terms of timing, now would be a better time to do it than ever. And by "now" I mean this postseason. As much as I don't like his contract, I think he would have quite a bit of value at the moment.
And then who do you go with as a #1 goalie next season? Unless the suggestion is Vladar is an NHL starter (which I don't think he is)
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:16 PM   #1058
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Vladar should’ve played Game 4, that’s on Sutter.

What’s the point of having a good backup if he’s not gonna play when the starter needs help? … so bizarre to me.

The team doesn’t need the goalie to steal any games… just be average!! … Marky is struggling, so let Vladar help him out… it’s a team game.
It would also have been vastly easier for Vladar to come in at game 4 than game 5 with the season on the line already.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:18 PM   #1059
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And then who do you go with as a #1 goalie next season? Unless the suggestion is Vladar is an NHL starter (which I don't think he is)
Anyone suggesting Markstrom needs to be traded has to be someone that wants to tear this whole thing down and see if they can suck enough to get Bedard.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:21 PM   #1060
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Anyone suggesting Markstrom needs to be traded has to be someone that wants to tear this whole thing down and see if they can suck enough to get Bedard.
someone pointed out in another thread that the only way to actually win a cup is to get a Top3 pick. There's been once exception in the last 13 years, and that team had a Top4 pick.

So it depends on what you want as a team.
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