Apparent Racially Motivated Attack At the Dome During Game 7

[Flame On]

I find it curious that without any evidence people are willing to believe there was an assault. But a racist incident to someone who probably knows from their lived experience, what racism looks like. Oh no, we have to be careful not to go too far?

[agulati]

What I find curious is folks who are quick to throw the “it is not racism” are jumping on the “they are trying to get free tickets” conclusion.

Shouldn’t that also not be a conclusion to be jumped to without evidence? Looks like victim blaming to me or a very quick assumption that the victims are looking for a handout.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The post adding that is significant IMO. They had a “suspicion” when they first posted. Then they talked to this witness and it turned into “1000%”. Something happened to make them write that.

Why do suggest they are lying?

That was not how I read it. I thought the young person (grandchild or whatever) had attended with the victim. And that the 1000% comment was simply their observation.

I think you are speculating more into this

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I find it curious that without any evidence people are willing to believe there was an assault. But a racist incident to someone who probably knows from their lived experience, what racism looks like. Oh no, we have to be careful not to go too far?

Lived experience is why I tend to believe them.

As for why no arrest, that’s the worst time to expect an arrest.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I find it curious that without any evidence people are willing to believe there was an assault. But a racist incident to someone who probably knows from their lived experience, what racism looks like. Oh no, we have to be careful not to go too far?

What? I think both aspects are equally up for question: was it an attack, or did someone stumble onto them? And if it was an attack, was it racially motivated?

Both questions need to be asked. And the evidence for both is - to this point - pretty slim.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by agulati

What I find curious is folks who are quick to throw the “it is not racism” are jumping on the “they are trying to get free tickets” conclusion.

Shouldn’t that also not be a conclusion to be jumped to without evidence? Looks like victim blaming to me or a very quick assumption that the victims are looking for a handout.

Well they got one.

And, they went to social media before they went to the authorities. That seems somewhat unusual, if they thought it was a hate crime, no?

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What? I think both aspects are equally up for question: was it an attack, or did someone stumble onto them? And if it was an attack, was it racially motivated?

Both questions need to be asked. And the evidence for both is - to this point - pretty slim.

It is perfectly acceptable -and probably even preferable- to have no opinion on this incident until we get actual evidence and information.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well they got one.

And, they went to social media before they went to the authorities. That seems somewhat unusual, if they thought it was a hate crime, no?

How does that prove that was the outcome they were looking for? For someone who is asking for speculation not to be used to condemn the defendants (something I completely agree with) isn’t that exactly what is happening if the possible victims are being blamed looking for a handout?

I don’t know how many people know there is a hate crime division within the police service itself. Social media has appeared to be an outlet for many of such things to come to light. It looks like they are going in that direction once this came out in the public spotlight.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by agulati

How does that prove that was the outcome they were looking for? For someone who is asking for speculation not to be used to condemn the defendants (something I completely agree with) isn’t that exactly what is happening if the possible victims are being blamed looking for a handout?

I don’t know how many people know there is a hate crime division within the police service itself. Social media has appeared to be an outlet for many of such things to come to light. It looks like they are going in that direction once this came out in the public spotlight.

Well I can only speak for me but I have at no time claimed that that is in fact what they were doing, never mind suggest it was proof.

All I am saying is that there are other possible explanations, besides what was claimed. A little balance against those immediately condemning the accused.

[Enoch Root]

And you're right - maybe they simply didn't know where to go with it. That is another plausible explanation for the way it played out.

More reason for discussion, vs condemning

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well I can only speak for me but I have at no time claimed that that is in fact what they were doing, never mind suggest it was proof.

All I am saying is that there are other possible explanations, besides what was claimed. A little balance against those immediately condemning the accused.

I read “well they got one” as implying just that, but that is fair enough.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

So, Gaudreau scores a huge overtime goal and someone decides to celebrate by committing a hate crime in a huge public space? And further they are not immediately arrested?

I don’t buy it. Sorry. I just don’t. I absolutely believe this man was pushed and injured. I don’t believe for a second it was a hate crime. It just doesn’t make any sort of logical sense.

I hope I don’t come across and insensitive, as I absolutely believe racism and hate crimes happen. I just find this particular case hard to believe.

The same thing crossed my mind. I am not saying there are lying, because frankly we don't know what happened. Pushing someone down stairs and laughing at them in a front of probably 50 or more witnesses, and where there is security likely within sight... that is like KKK/neo-Nazi level racism. It exists in places for sure, but it's rare to see it on display in a very public venue. I would hope that people in that section who saw it would be outraged enough to say something to the police or security, especially now that the accusations have been made public. If not, that would make this even even more shameful.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well they got one.

And, they went to social media before they went to the authorities. That seems somewhat unusual, if they thought it was a hate crime, no?

They went to the cops as well, it was a guy who wasn’t there that went to the media. It was his sister who was there.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well I can only speak for me but I have at no time claimed that that is in fact what they were doing, never mind suggest it was proof.

All I am saying is that there are other possible explanations, besides what was claimed. A little balance against those immediately condemning the accused.

Innocent until proven guilty is still the rule of law.

We know not very much/ nothing of what actually happened.

Right?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by agulati

I read “well they got one” as implying just that, but that is fair enough.

'well they got one' is a fact, but I was simply observing it, not trying to use it accusatorily. Apologies.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by timbit

Innocent until proven guilty is still the rule of law.

We know not very much/ nothing of what actually happened.

Right?

that is what I am trying to say, yes

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by agulati

I don’t know how many people know there is a hate crime division within the police service itself. Social media has appeared to be an outlet for many of such things to come to light. It looks like they are going in that direction once this came out in the public spotlight.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And you're right - maybe they simply didn't know where to go with it.

You don't go to the Hate Crimes Unit, it comes to you. It's a speciality unit that gets involved usually at the request of the primary investigator.

In cases of this nature, the victim would have called it in as an assault, possibly stating that they felt that it was racially motivated. A cop would have been dispatched to investigate further. That officer could then engage the HCU with the case if they felt it was warranted.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

You don't go to the Hate Crimes Unit, it comes to you. It's a speciality unit that gets involved usually at the request of the primary investigator.

In cases of this nature, the victim would have called it in as an assault, possibly stating that they felt that it was racially motivated. A cop would have been dispatched to investigate further. That officer could then engage the HCU with the case if they felt it was warranted.

How new is this unit?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

You don't go to the Hate Crimes Unit, it comes to you. It's a speciality unit that gets involved usually at the request of the primary investigator.

In cases of this nature, the victim would have called it in as an assault, possibly stating that they felt that it was racially motivated. A cop would have been dispatched to investigate further. That officer could then engage the HCU with the case if they felt it was warranted.

And this is what happened in this case. It’s already gone to HCU.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by agulati

How new is this unit?

It's hard to get a solid answer to this, but from what I have been able to piece together from folks I talked to is that CPS made the first 'Hate/Bias Crime Officer' in the province in 2000.

The HCU grew out of his workload over the next couple years.