Eastern Bias exists - No Gaudreau for Hart

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Depends on how you look at it I guess. Playing more minutes and racking up more points can show you're valuable to the team because you play so much more than your inferior teammates (well except for Draisaitl). Without those minutes and points, I agree the Oilers are screwed.

Johnny playing so many less minutes (13 games worth) than McDavid and barely trailing him in points is an argument for him. On top of that you have his +/- (I know some people hate that stat but Gaudreau's 2-way play this season was fantastic) and his even strength points (the most in almost 30 years) that dwarfed McDavid.

It's a moot point anyways, one is a finalist, the other isn't. But to do what Gaudreau did 5-on-5 this season, in far few minutes and barely trail McDavid in points is unbelievably impressive. It's shame he's not even a finalist, he had an amazing year.

Yeah I'm not going to criticize Gaudreau or what he has done. Incredible year.
But the ability to log heavy minutes is a big deal. Gaudreau has made the most of his time on the ice, I don't think he could play the minutes that McDavid does.

Interesting argument as to whether McDavid would benefit from less icetime.

[Lanny_McDonald]

That is a positive IMO. Not something that can be used to extort more money out of the Flames in a new contract

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If I'm being honest, that is an argument in favor of McDavid.

Shesterkin doesn't deserve it because he didn't play enough. McDavid doesn't deserve it because he played too much. We're Goldilocking this award lol.

But to me, the argument favours McDavid as well. They have to play him as much as possible, because they have no one else. I think until the criteria of the Hart changes officially, the MVP part has to be considered. Remove McDavid and Gaudreau from their teams (ignoring injured Monahan, playoff comeback anti-vaxxer Archibald) and you're looking at something like:

Draisaitl-AHL callup-Yamamoto
Kane-Nugent-Hopkins-Hyman
AHL callup-McLeod-Puljujarvi
Foegele-Ryan-Kassian

Nurse-Ceci
Keith-Bouchard
Kulak-Barrie

Smith
Koskinen

vs

AHL callup-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Backlund-Toffoli
Dube-Jarnkrok-Coleman
Lucic-Lewis

Hanifin-Andersson
Kylington-Tanev
Zadorov-Gudbranson
Stone

Markstrom
Vladar


If people want to say they would prefer the top team, go for it I guess, and maybe I'm just a Flames homer but I think the bottom team is far superior.

I think my disdain for the Oilers may have rolled over to the point I can appreciate that McDavid is able to do anything at all with that team. Like look at that defense and goalie situation. It's a miracle that they have a single win, let alone made the playoffs (hopefully only to be kicked out in 6).

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Gaudreau has made the most of his time on the ice, I don't think he could play the minutes that McDavid does.

Interesting argument as to whether McDavid would benefit from less icetime.

From the Jets sweeping them last year. Of course a bit out of a wack because of the game that went to third OT, but even in a game that lasted 64 minutes, Draisaitl played 31.

When they are playing half the game, especially McDavid's who true power is outskating everyone so he needs to use cardio each shift to be effective, it's impressive they can even get off the ice after their shifts. Yeah, it's easy to criticize them when they aren't the first player back or look lazy when we see the inevitable late period goal against, but we also often missed that they just played like 5 of the last 7 minutes.

And then you can't even blame the coach: Hmm, Draisaitl is coughing up blood after that 13 minute shift. Putting him out there might actually kill him from over exhaustion. I wonder if I could be liable for that. But not doing so means I'm playing Kassian. "McDavid, Draisaitl get out there".

[NegativeSpace]

I stopped taking this award seriously when Iginla got robbed.


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[Atlantica]

I frankly dislike all of the awards other than ones based on objective criteria such as scoring title. As for JG, his asking price would likely be higher if he won the Hart and other teams might throw even more $$$ his way as offers. I prefer he be our well kept secret - as the Coach says, individual accolades mean nothing :> He is our Hart winner - that is all I care about.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dino7c

who they are probably going to get rid of to keep Kane

Would take him in a heartbeat. Has completely turned his game around.

[N-E-B]

Johnny Gaudreau just put up numbers that haven’t been seen since Wayne ####### Gretzky in the 80’s, but McDavid.

Speaks more about the intelligence of the people voting than it does the players.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Johnny Gaudreau just put up numbers that haven’t been seen since Wayne ####### Gretzky in the 80’s, but McDavid.

Speaks more about the intelligence of the people voting than it does the players.

What numbers? His 90 even strength points? Jagr put up 95 in 1996. That's also the season that last had the unofficial 50-in-50 with Lemieux until Matthews earned it this year.

Ironically, McDavid put up 84 in 2018, also at the time the most since Jagr, and lead the league by 18 (Giroux second with 66). He too wasn't nominated for the Hart that year because even with the best player in the world, the Oilers are bad enough to miss the playoffs.

[Manhattanboy]

There's going to be a much larger trophy with Johnny's name etched on it. And for fun, he will ask to have some of his friend's names included as well.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

What numbers?

1st in EV points, points per MP and +/-

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I stopped taking this award seriously when Iginla got robbed.


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I know this won't be a popular opinion, however I don't think Iginla should have won that year. I feel you can't be the most valuable player in the league to your team if you still missed the playoffs and didn't achieve the bare minimum for team success.

[FireGilbert]

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

1st in EV points, points per MP and +/-

Well that seems super specific lol.

Sedin had 83 EV points (first with 10 more than Ovechkin), was first in point per MP (5v5 at least) with 4.01/60 (Gaudreau is 3.58) but he was only fifth in +/-. Sedin of course won the Hart but as someone who doesn't care about +/- (as pretty much everyone except when using it for their argument), I think the "not since Gretzky in the 80s" is a bit of an exaggeration when you need to throw in +/- lol.

I could do the same with Matthews with even less cherry picking. He's just the second player, ever, to put up 60 goals and less than 20 PIM. Only Bossy had done it before and most recently in 1986.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Would take him in a heartbeat. Has completely turned his game around.

Hell no.

Character is important. Sutter was talking about Markstrom the other day and before mentioning his play talked about what a leader and character guy he is, and how much Vladar was learning from that.

Kane might have the worst character of any active NHLer.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Gaudreau and Huberdeau got robbed. Should be the pair of wingers and the goalie. This very much has to do with media bias and the position in which they play. The only one that makes sense is Shesterkin imo.

[OptimalTates]

I think he means Puljuravi.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That is a positive IMO. Not something that can be used to extort more money out of the Flames in a new contract

I don't think that Johnny is trying to extort any money from the Flames.

His production speaks for itself, and he'll be paid his worth on the market place.

Whether he won the Hart or not likely has little bearing on his true worth.

I can assure you that GM's know his value.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I know this won't be a popular opinion, however I don't think Iginla should have won that year. I feel you can't be the most valuable player in the league to your team if you still missed the playoffs and didn't achieve the bare minimum for team success.

It's not even the biggest trophy that Iginla got robbed.

But even though I disagreed at the time because it's Iginla, I can get the argument now and I think it's been used enough to justify players not on playoff teams missing out on it.

The Ted Lindsay is the award that goes to the best player full stop. There's no weird criteria or ambiguity on who is or should be eligible. The only issue is that the media doesn't award it so I don't think it gets the same prestige but then there's less bias to.

[Gaskal]

Haha I'm personally hoping he responds to his complete snub of the Hart the way Michael Jordan did when they gave Malone the MVP... like, oh ok. You can have that. I'll just be over here winning a championship while dunking all over your ass repeatedly.