05-09-2022, 12:03 PM
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#21
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
It still matters having a top 3 player at his position...makes some posters this season look pretty dumb too
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Makes some posters this season look pretty dumb?
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05-09-2022, 12:32 PM
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#22
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
Weegar's at the top of pretty much every fancy stat there is. He might not have the points, but the +40 tells you something.
Ekblad missed 21 games, yet the Panthers remained dominant with Weegar as their #1.
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Not sure what stats you are talking about because I don't see those results. Nor Corsi, Fenwick or any of their variables. On those he's well behind Hedman (and quite a few others including both Rasmus and Noah).
I guess on JFresh's ES defensive WAR he's just above Tanev. But he's not even on the list of top offensive or combined WAR.
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05-09-2022, 12:44 PM
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#23
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Franchise Player
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Weird to have such a hard on for Weegar. There are tons of better defensemen and some would argue he's not even the best d-man on his own team.
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05-09-2022, 12:55 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Weird to have such a hard on for Weegar. There are tons of better defensemen and some would argue he's not even the best d-man on his own team.
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I understand loving a defensive defenceman - I really enjoy watching Tanev work, and also Reg or Bob Murdoch back in the day. I just don't know if I see Weegar as a Norris candidate. I'd bet he's not top 10 in voting.
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05-09-2022, 01:21 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
Weegar's at the top of pretty much every fancy stat there is. He might not have the points, but the +40 tells you something.
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The fact you rely upon +/- tells me all I need to know.
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05-09-2022, 01:22 PM
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#26
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I understand loving a defensive defenceman - I really enjoy watching Tanev work, and also Reg or Bob Murdoch back in the day. I just don't know if I see Weegar as a Norris candidate. I'd bet he's not top 10 in voting.
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You would win that bet.
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05-09-2022, 01:38 PM
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#27
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samonadreau
Makes some posters this season look pretty dumb?
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yes, the ones that kept telling us Markstrom isn't a top tier goalie and that we are just homers look dumb when NHL GM's vote him top 3 in the entire league
__________________
GFG
Last edited by dino7c; 05-09-2022 at 02:28 PM.
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05-09-2022, 01:42 PM
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#28
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I understand loving a defensive defenceman - I really enjoy watching Tanev work, and also Reg or Bob Murdoch back in the day. I just don't know if I see Weegar as a Norris candidate. I'd bet he's not top 10 in voting.
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Agreed, he's not 1st on his team let alone top 10 in the NHL
NHL really should create another award, best defensive dman
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05-09-2022, 01:56 PM
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#29
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flambers
Agreed, he's not 1st on his team let alone top 10 in the NHL
NHL really should create another award, best defensive dman
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I advocate that regularly. The Langway Award. I also sometimes think the Selke is now often the "best offensive guy who is also pretty good at defence" award.
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05-09-2022, 02:16 PM
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#30
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
The fact you rely upon +/- tells me all I need to know.
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I don't. I was responding to the "counting stat" comment. But whatever.
#1 in CF% (not counting Ekblad due to incomplete season)
#1 in xGF
#2 in Enhanced +/- (MacAvoy edged him out)
etc.
58.3% CF% vs. Hedman's 53.7%
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05-09-2022, 02:26 PM
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#31
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Weird to have such a hard on for Weegar. There are tons of better defensemen and some would argue he's not even the best d-man on his own team.
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Ekblad has a slightly beter CF%, but he also played 19 fewer games. Weegar posted his CF% without Ekblad for a quarter of the season.
But please do point to all the defenceman I missed with better CF%s...
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05-09-2022, 02:31 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
I don't. I was responding to the "counting stat" comment. But whatever.
#1 in CF% (not counting Ekblad due to incomplete season)
#1 in xGF
#2 in Enhanced +/- (MacAvoy edged him out)
etc.
58.3% CF% vs. Hedman's 53.7%
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I'm assuming #1 in CF% means among contenders, because Zadorov is actually higher at 59.3.
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05-09-2022, 02:43 PM
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#33
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
yes, the ones that kept telling us Markstrom isn't a top tier goalie and that we are just homers look dumb when NHL GM's vote him top 3 in the entire league
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Fair enough, I didnt know that was a thing at one point.
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05-09-2022, 02:44 PM
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#34
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I'm assuming #1 in CF% means among contenders, because Zadorov is actually higher at 59.3.
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Weegar averaged 6:30 minutes per game more ice time than Zadorov.
But I was surprised to see Zadorov that high. Doughty was higher, too, but only saw ~30 or so games.
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05-09-2022, 02:46 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
Ekblad has a slightly beter CF%, but he also played 19 fewer games. Weegar posted his CF% without Ekblad for a quarter of the season.
But please do point to all the defenceman I missed with better CF%s...
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If we just rank all d-men by CF% and give that guy the Norris, then there wouldn't be reason for a vote, would there?
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05-09-2022, 02:51 PM
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#36
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
If we just rank all d-men by CF% and give that guy the Norris, then there would be reason for a vote, would there?
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Yeah, if we approach all CP threads in bad faith (like this ^), then we should just default to our natural appeal to authority.
Durr! Hedman! 85 points! Durr!
Am I doing this right?
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05-09-2022, 03:11 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
Yeah, if we approach all CP threads in bad faith (like this ^), then we should just default to our natural appeal to authority.
Durr! Hedman! 85 points! Durr!
Am I doing this right?
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No, you aren't.
We are having a discussion and you are saying having the best CF% is enough to be in the Norris race. Then you asked me to name all the d-men with a better CF%. If CF% was the only thing that mattered, then a vote is unnecessary.
I'm not approaching this in "bad faith", I'm just saying there are lots of other defensmen who are better than him when you take into account counting stats, advanced stats & intangibles like leadership and toughness.
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05-09-2022, 03:24 PM
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#38
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
No, you aren't.
We are having a discussion and you are saying having the best CF% is enough to be in the Norris race. Then you asked me to name all the d-men with a better CF%. If CF% was the only thing that mattered, then a vote is unnecessary.
I'm not approaching this in "bad faith", I'm just saying there are lots of other defensmen who are better than him when you take into account counting stats, advanced stats & intangibles like leadership and toughness.
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Pretty sure I pointed out XGF and E+/-, but whatever dude. It's bad faith to misrepresent someone else's argument.
Let's ignore that Weegar was the #1 d-man for one of the most dominant teams in modern NHL history. He only posted 44 points. He sucks. He probably only got those by standing on the ice while the Panthers played around him.
That's pretty much what you're saying, right?
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05-09-2022, 03:25 PM
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#39
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon7
Pretty sure I pointed out XGF and E+/-, but whatever dude. It's bad faith to misrepresent someone else's argument.
Let's ignore that Weegar was the #1 d-man for one of the most dominant teams in modern NHL history. He only posted 44 points. He sucks. He probably only got those by standing on the ice while the Panthers played around him.
That's pretty much what you're saying, right?
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No I'm saying he's had a great season, but he's no where near a top d-man league wide right now.
I think the voters will agree with me and not you when they release the votes.
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05-09-2022, 03:30 PM
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#40
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
No I'm saying he's had a great season, but he's no where near a top d-man league wide right now.
I think the voters will agree with me and not you when they release the votes.
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Yes, I've already established your appeal to authority. Let's move on.
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