Brad Treliving needs to go

[Jiri Hrdina]

Part of the evaluation needs to be:
- is BT a better GM now than he was earlier in his tenure?
- Can you find a better GM.

At some point it starts to make less sense to argue he should be fired for past mistakes (e.g. Bad UFA signings such as Neal/Brouwer, bad trades such as Hamonic, inability to chagne the team mid-season, bad coaching hires).

What kind of GM is he NOW and going forward.

[PepsiFree]

I’ll need another 6-10 years of Treliving management before I, random internet user, am prepared to offer my very important and sought after judgement on his performance.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I would trade winning a cup for Gaudreau walking after this season.

Yes, but that's the only way that works. If they don't win and he walks then I call that a failure of management.

So either Tre knows Johnny is staying or he just went for the hail mary knowing he's fired unless they go all the way.

I'm enjoying the heck out of this season but Tre's job likely hinges on either winning or signing Johnny this summer.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Treliving gets full marks. Sutter wanted to retire, just sit at home and watch hockey? Tre hires coaches that were so bad, a frustrated Darryl couldn’t sit around and watch it any more. Tre played the long game, irritated him in to coming on board.

I certainly don't mind the humour, and with Sutter's digs on Ward there is some truth to it too.

But why does every seem to just ignore Peters in this history? Was he a terrible coach? He won the division and then was fired the next season for reasons that had nothing to do with Treliving.

Gulutzan was good technically, but not a leader of men ... that's on Treliving.
I think Ward was the third choice.

But Peters wasn't a poor coaching hire if you don't have the benefit of knowing the skeletons in his closet.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly don't mind the humour, and with Sutter's digs on Ward there is some truth to it too.

But why does every seem to just ignore Peters in this history? Was he a terrible coach? He won the division and then was fired the next season for reasons that had nothing to do with Treliving.

Gulutzan was good technically, but not a leader of men ... that's on Treliving.
I think Ward was the third choice.

But Peters wasn't a poor coaching hire if you don't have the benefit of knowing the skeletons in his closet.

Peters was no gem before the issues. He was another in a long line of coaches that simply weren't able to get more than a few stretches out of his team. They started to falter down the stretch and never recovered in the division winning season and were pretty mediocre until he was canned the following season too.

Treliving has benefited from the Sutter hire in a big way, just like the entire team, which you have to give him credit for. The fact of the matter is that many GMs with his track record as of last season wouldn't have been given the option to make another hire at that point.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly don't mind the humour, and with Sutter's digs on Ward there is some truth to it too.

But why does every seem to just ignore Peters in this history? Was he a terrible coach? He won the division and then was fired the next season for reasons that had nothing to do with Treliving.

Gulutzan was good technically, but not a leader of men ... that's on Treliving.
I think Ward was the third choice.

But Peters wasn't a poor coaching hire if you don't have the benefit of knowing the skeletons in his closet.

I don't know about that. He didn't have a great coaching record in Carolina, so no idea why he was even the front runner. Wasn't the story that Treliving didn't even interview anyone else and just hired Peters because he met him at the world championships? Sure he had a good season, but he was soundly outcoached in the playoffs vs Colorado.

IMO all the coaching hires were iffy after Hartley was removed, until they got Sutter. That's a long period of time to go for diamond in the rough coaches. Thankfully its resolved now.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly don't mind the humour, and with Sutter's digs on Ward there is some truth to it too.

But why does every seem to just ignore Peters in this history? Was he a terrible coach? He won the division and then was fired the next season for reasons that had nothing to do with Treliving.

Gulutzan was good technically, but not a leader of men ... that's on Treliving.
I think Ward was the third choice.

But Peters wasn't a poor coaching hire if you don't have the benefit of knowing the skeletons in his closet.

Peters was a terrible coach. 4 extremely mediocre years in Carolina and since he left they have become a top team in the league. Peters had the Flames playing well in 18/19 and did a horrendous job of getting them ready for the playoffs and as Zadorov quoted his team was extremely easy to play against. The next season the team is trending to miss the playoffs altogether until the whole Aliu thing breaks and gives the team no option but to make a change and they go on a great run likely thanks to the better atmosphere around the team without that horrible coach around anymore.

Peters was the definition of mediocre before he came here and outside of a couple of really good months were this team was winning basically every game they were mediocre under him. They started and ended that division winning season slow.

Lindholm gave Gaudreau and Monahan the boost they needed since Hudler was on their wing, and Gio was reborn being reunited with Brodie and not having to cover for Dougie like he did in years past that took away some of his offensive ability.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I don't know about that. He didn't have a great coaching record in Carolina, so no idea why he was even the front runner. Wasn't the story that Treliving didn't even interview anyone else and just hired Peters because he met him at the world championships? Sure he had a good season, but he was soundly outcoached in the playoffs vs Colorado.

IMO all the coaching hires were iffy after Hartley was removed, until they got Sutter. That's a long period of time to go for diamond in the rough coaches. Thankfully its resolved now.

Saying Treliving ‘met’ Peters is underselling it a bit. They won a World Championship together. That’s no small accomplishment.

If I’m not mistaken Carolina was often seen as a stats darling during Peters tenure who routinely was sewered by bad goaltending. Just how I recall it off the top of my head, could be wrong.

[Bingo]

OK I was under the impression that winning a division took some good coaching ...

Clearly that's not the case.

This is a tough line though ... if Sutter gets all the credit for what's happening now, but Peters get none of the credit for what happened before the line gets a little sketchy doesn't it?

[Hot_Flatus]

There's a lot riding on the playoffs this year. Treliving shouldn't be untouchable if things go seriously sideways and this team is easily bounced once again.

I don't see it happening given the body of work this season, but there's still a 1000lb gorilla on this team's back that they need to shake by going on a run for once.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

There's a lot riding on the playoffs this year. Treliving shouldn't be untouchable if things go seriously sideways and this team is easily bounced once again.

I don't see it happening given the body of work this season, but there's still a 1000lb gorilla on this team's back that they need to shake by going on a run for once.

Absolutely.

This is the Calgary Flames. To be excited but worried certainly makes sense.

My gut though is Treliving is safe. I think the ownership group likes him and supports continuity.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

OK I was under the impression that winning a division took some good coaching ...

Clearly that's not the case.

This is a tough line though ... if Sutter gets all the credit for what's happening now, but Peters get none of the credit for what happened before the line gets a little sketchy doesn't it?

Peters can take all the credit for getting out coached in the playoffs and following that up with a terrible first half of the next season.

Even in the very few tough stretches this team has had this year, you've never seen the style of play and commitment waver under Sutter. Peters was an entirely different story.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Absolutely.

This is the Calgary Flames. To be excited but worried certainly makes sense.

My gut though is Treliving is safe. I think the ownership group likes him and supports continuity.

If they win a round or two and Tre manages to keep this team together in the offseason, he certainly deserves to stick around.

No small feat but certainly doable.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Peters can take all the credit for getting out coached in the playoffs and following that up with a terrible first half of the next season.

Even in the very few tough stretches this team has had this year, you've never seen the style of play and commitment waver under Sutter. Peters was an entirely different story.

So 2nd overall and conference crown ... no credit.
Sutter and division win ... full credit.

Gotcha.

That would almost mean the GM gets full credit for success in 2019 and none for 2022.

Getting to be quite the house of cards for some!

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Absolutely.

This is the Calgary Flames. To be excited but worried certainly makes sense.

My gut though is Treliving is safe. I think the ownership group likes him and supports continuity.

Had the opportunity to spend some time with a local scout from an Eastern based team last offseason and asked him about Treliving and if he thought he was on thin ice. His response was that he understood Treliving and the owners have a pretty good relationship.

…he suggested Treliving was safe and didn’t think any change was imminent, which was being discussed here steadily.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I don't know about that. He didn't have a great coaching record in Carolina, so no idea why he was even the front runner. Wasn't the story that Treliving didn't even interview anyone else and just hired Peters because he met him at the world championships? Sure he had a good season, but he was soundly outcoached in the playoffs vs Colorado.

IMO all the coaching hires were iffy after Hartley was removed, until they got Sutter. That's a long period of time to go for diamond in the rough coaches. Thankfully its resolved now.

Teams that lack a strong enough personality in their room to lead get their identity from their coach. Hartley filled this role, he also had the team in shape (referencing the problems Sutter has mentioned) but was grinding them into the ground. Hartley was over training some players, in some cases to the point of injury, and would go against medical advice.

Treliving wanted the group to grow into their own identity. This didn’t happen with Gluegun. If anything it was a huge step backwards psychologically. Hartley's “find-a-way Flames” regressed to a mentally weak group that would wilt and fold when something bad happened. This lingered under Peters and this year will be the proof that the mental weakness is gone.

Gluegun might be Treliving's biggest mistake.

Peter’s was brought in to right the ship & build, or rebuild, an identity. He did this, but his in-game management was exposed in the playoffs.

Ward was a stopgap who’s preexisting relationships with the players was his biggest asset during a pandemic where normal development & team building procedures weren’t available.

Sutter is a mix of all these coaches.

He keeps the team in shape but manages their physical & mental condition to enable trust. He gives them a strong presence and identity. He’s hard & no nonsense, technically strong, with keen in game management.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by chedder

Yes, but that's the only way that works. If they don't win and he walks then I call that a failure of management.

So either Tre knows Johnny is staying or he just went for the hail mary knowing he's fired unless they go all the way.

I'm enjoying the heck out of this season but Tre's job likely hinges on either winning or signing Johnny this summer.

A third choice.

Treliving knew Johnny might not be back, looked at the trade offers (and didn't like them) and management instructed him to keep Johnny and go all in.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's working pretty hard to play down a division win.

The Flames are 5th overall in the standings in a league with four divisions. This isn't winning the Norris Division in 1985.

Will anyone use that division win to evaluate the team if they get swept again?

No.

'Nuff said.

Good teams make noise in the playoffs. Let's see that happen before we declare this a good team.

I hope they will, I think they will, but I don't know they will.

[SuperMatt18]

People put too much value in the playoffs and not enough value in the regular season.

Playoffs are as much about luck, and getting hot at the right time than anything.

It's tougher to be a good team over a longer period of time IMO.

Honestly this thread should be locked until the offseason - embarrassing this is on the first page when the team has clinched the division, is on a 8-1-1 run, and we are still arguing if the GM deserves any credit for that.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I also think that we need to come to grips with the notion that Calgary may not be a preferred destination for higher end coaches.

I’m not sure I’m ready accept that conclusion. While the results were piss poor, Edmonton was able to acquire many coaches that would have been considered “higher end”.

Tippet, McLellen, Hitchcock, and Renney were all highly respected coaches prior to coming to Edmonton.

If Edmonton can attract coaches of that calibre than we should be able to as well.